From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDpyazpBBoEyJcRyA@googlegroups.com Mon Jan 10 07:25:47 2011 Received: from mail-yi0-f61.google.com ([209.85.218.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PcJcp-0000VY-N6; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:25:46 -0800 Received: by yia27 with SMTP id 27sf13325458yia.16 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:25:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=8L7v1wEWyGyulN9GGj9KYVyvT47GSrgr2ym7qnfq/e0=; b=gF7HxED+HZUlpxBXoLndHE0+AyB2u/taeiWWCLChCIS1wO0SlswZ2uf1zEBIgKbwhE FAlk8ApDZSGFoePoVYOcMZM9c/syshK0meoQ6/079udwDqie3/L72a2zg7Klpm9bEXLh Hc3odPemIJlYwErpBXZcDANmBGBjTG5VHV0ds= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=RIfwpMFkyxD4nKYTNDnLVQNUH9dwP1M4rI0TDuk/V2duuRv8H+8ZS0gT8ASP37LMbF vr11wcdPGEc4hU9uV2JSAkIhC4K1b2tHMwg36TJ5TQ0ZbABSOhNk9jef6es3PJTdTZC4 G8dO7Py+Rmfx5txWau0p6fQsZk8nAn5vkK/A4= Received: by 10.100.34.17 with SMTP id h17mr304051anh.64.1294673129834; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:25:29 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.100.239.3 with SMTP id m3ls3850976anh.0.p; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:25:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.251.9 with SMTP id y9mr4980084anh.47.1294673129119; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:25:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.251.9 with SMTP id y9mr4980083anh.47.1294673129097; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:25:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.123]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id e31si12326469ana.11.2011.01.10.07.25.27; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.123 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.123; Received: (qmail 86626 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jan 2011 15:25:27 -0000 Message-ID: <592786.85574.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: E48z2nMVM1lcSQmig0N60cYs83O06FsVIh20tVooSSfTg_k rs.TiiWVDYalFrhY8MPHpACqxRtUizz0lgd_gT8I8o.MAXp29b4UaW.LD.8G ITZqDVInYGIssA._HQccoQnvcE_3lgbb_v.HjICJdtq84S.hJDgaInhb9Yuz rq3k_IzWx6PYGFyDpeFdJyvQoNu.tJjU2mt401gAe4p6or4iJhmNAjLK.ann Mp4uLaZ6sbJoMmemTac5Y6z7pX8k2rH8IYQivQMCh45E1UITkVkVkQ7UVPrF 61qzuSBOJOEu0r6plyE5EVzcz_2ezki_B09MIBSac9ItQhGtpxOPw5ia.gfv 1safraMxo9jyQOcvLk9gB7yPXh1feYZjDt4sI.DLiuRYw87.7Z8QstohKx6O pXB284y7qpz3xHzVcSSrScYxJ Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:25:27 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 References: <4D25CFD8.6010408@lojban.org> <63371.11455.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20963.85801.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <913593.57689.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D299F91.2020308@lojban.org> <20110110145240.GK6914@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:25:27 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: Out of the mouths of babes (was Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)) To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: <20110110145240.GK6914@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.123 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think that just pulling out the words or concepts would not do the trick. We need to be able to cover what the child *says*, not merely the words s/he uses individually, especially since the words turn out in context to have a variety of meanings, often far from the base. I haven't look at the db, but if it does not include conversations -- and fairly long ones at that -- it will ultimately not be satisfactory (that is, it wi;; leave it open for critics to say we have not made our case.) ----- Original Message ---- From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 8:52:40 AM Subject: Out of the mouths of babes (was Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)) On Sun, Jan 09, 2011 at 06:44:17AM -0500, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG wrote: > John E Clifford wrote: > >Portable recorder (a pen size say) and transcription at the end > >of each day. Textbooks cover very little of a typical > >10-year-old's life, nor would adding in books, tv and games cover > >the whole very well. > > I believe that there already exist such corpora; I had access to > one several years ago, called CHILDES. I don't remember the age > range. > > http://childes.psy.cmu.edu/ seems to be the current site, and it > looks like they've accomplished a lot since I last looked. That looks really complicated. If there's a way to extract "here's a list of words/concepts that any language should/must be able to easily express", I don't see how to do it. If you could explore the site to find that, it would be really helpful. -Robin -- http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.