From lojban+bncCN673cmqFBCcsK3pBBoEqbz03Q@googlegroups.com Mon Jan 10 11:04:15 2011 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PcN2E-00083Z-Sd; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:04:15 -0800 Received: by yxn35 with SMTP id 35sf18721006yxn.16 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:04:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:x-vr-score :x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score:message-id:date:from:user-agent :x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=W1U2mFiXRMbRPHBjPJn4SBsjRq+TTb20udpnem2Zh7U=; b=tL46rnxkuu4CcPattcunmLdbuYBqY/TJCK83VqwfT+RgLnI7BxOQby23uD9a36fOga m854njxZL17Dwg2uEBVsEtF4xCVmaiVkyyCcgFmoB0ZIpdMOgaKiQnlZFoR0zAW5eqUH B1xLcoSewRRiuYGFrqirhXPub2T96fg1S/+Ys= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-vr-score:x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score :message-id:date:from:user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=hFJ3cnpT+bKv7ZdSKf7oTWOG4Gni/mEAx+HbvajyulExtjAdEDKr988IoVVRllQ2y1 Sa3AqaV3SwTup+E1nuzD4Sq7dnmNqCa83LVHk/ih2VUXtN2kR9r+wW1BlK1wxrLRwkcR oYvpRABk5frSCuIZibaLzbefHsUrX695B8KME= Received: by 10.150.72.30 with SMTP id u30mr2180450yba.80.1294686236030; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:03:56 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.197.14 with SMTP id u14ls4077036ybf.7.p; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:03:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.110.137 with SMTP id u9mr3573665yhg.1.1294686234823; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:03:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.110.137 with SMTP id u9mr3573664yhg.1.1294686234765; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:03:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from eastrmmtao106.cox.net (eastrmmtao106.cox.net [68.230.240.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id u10si2579816yba.6.2011.01.10.11.03.54; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:03:54 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.48 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.240.48; Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao106.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.03.00 201-2260-125-20100507) with ESMTP id <20110110190356.OHNM7953.eastrmmtao106.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:03:56 -0500 Received: from [192.168.0.101] ([70.179.118.163]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id tv3p1f0023Xcbvq02v3pAd; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:03:54 -0500 X-VR-Score: -110.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=mQtM3u13Ja0EQ1tlNqaUshXqTFopyFga/TXxhvMLLsw= c=1 sm=1 a=vioqOS5D-QkA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=7ls7RdmwX4RvLZNVULbZcg==:17 a=tff_f_YsAAAA:8 a=QbnQHMLxA9OxAH-h274A:9 a=hqI1IVBaVlNdg9iWGM4A:7 a=HO9wz9lR-80Ys40KtGARXpR6rZcA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=7ls7RdmwX4RvLZNVULbZcg==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <4D2B584D.6020409@lojban.org> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:04:45 -0500 From: Robert LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Out of the mouths of babes (was Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)) References: <4D25CFD8.6010408@lojban.org> <63371.11455.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20963.85801.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <913593.57689.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D299F91.2020308@lojban.org> <20110110145240.GK6914@digitalkingdom.org> In-Reply-To: <20110110145240.GK6914@digitalkingdom.org> X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.48 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Sun, Jan 09, 2011 at 06:44:17AM -0500, Bob LeChevalier, President > and Founder - LLG wrote: > >>John E Clifford wrote: >> >>>Portable recorder (a pen size say) and transcription at the end >>>of each day. Textbooks cover very little of a typical >>>10-year-old's life, nor would adding in books, tv and games cover >>>the whole very well. >> >>I believe that there already exist such corpora; I had access to >>one several years ago, called CHILDES. I don't remember the age >>range. >> >>http://childes.psy.cmu.edu/ seems to be the current site, and it >>looks like they've accomplished a lot since I last looked. > > > That looks really complicated. If there's a way to extract "here's > a list of words/concepts that any language should/must be able to > easily express", I don't see how to do it. If you could explore the > site to find that, it would be really helpful. I tried for that a long time ago, but it was going to take more time and/or expertise than I had. Someone in the community may know the field of corpora better than I do, and can step in here. Of course, for basic concepts, we still have the Helen Eaton semantic frequency list, of the most used word-concepts in 4 lanaguages. That was JCB's standard for vocabulary completeness, and it conveniently is based on concepts as much as on "word", which is always the flaw of working with corpora. But it isn't a "childs" list, either. I think it would be better than anything we could quickly extract from a database like CHILDES, since this really is a "research project" sort of thing, and if we were truly going to do research in this field we should try to get Chinese and Hindi and Arabic and Russian and Spanish corpora, and not just English ones (Eaton at least has the Spanish along with English). We have a couple of copies of Eaton here (I think they really are "copies" and aren't in great shape) and I note that people can purchase copies through amazon and alibris and elsewhere for #20-30 - probably of the out-of-print Dover edition. lojbab -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. 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