From lojban+bncCLr6ktCfBBCEgrnpBBoE66Ii8g@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 12 16:02:32 2011 Received: from mail-yi0-f56.google.com ([209.85.218.56]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PdAdz-0005NX-L6; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 16:02:32 -0800 Received: by yie21 with SMTP id 21sf769839yie.1 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 16:02:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject :message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ozt89S5O60HVe+Jn/NRuWhJY6AGJFQcAcWLFeZ5p4PI=; b=hGXH3GQMln3HdYX7D90MecYqlUAxvp5MQaNwWHr2Trs56ktEsdUskPgyRle1CDDRq+ 8iA+vQsfNH97NxwXgX/rRgBvNBtV3t2TX/X149rTHr6ValfCaX5cATXi5ga9XdQ6fMYC aJAfzm/72HYhgZqhfnnhIdIZIdPreDMq4bB2A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; b=U+kgKxXs4dVvcP2fDaI90H5vb7/gvhtrK1WNiki0C9GMXOJOd/hGlANpqBDDFWqyCK XZI8iWbRzQAblCrH5xI3jBgzW6Dcpc2Twnh3o7ShgJdG46M7D/rc/IL+AdTRZRGM5pBc wlI1rusYAowtQhgcVZdK9FvhQDYzFa+pjj7p4= Received: by 10.90.117.15 with SMTP id p15mr94199agc.21.1294876932060; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 16:02:12 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.90.149.10 with SMTP id w10ls207348agd.1.p; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 16:02:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.91.163.11 with SMTP id q11mr761926ago.16.1294876405799; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:53:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.91.163.11 with SMTP id q11mr757760ago.16.1294875914904; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:45:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yw0-f45.google.com (mail-yw0-f45.google.com [209.85.213.45]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i10si384707anh.8.2011.01.12.15.45.14 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:45:14 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.213.45 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=209.85.213.45; Received: by ywl5 with SMTP id 5so492813ywl.32 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:45:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.91.92.19 with SMTP id u19mr2402954agl.111.1294875914585; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:45:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net [68.35.167.179]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 72sm765277yhl.38.2011.01.12.15.45.12 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:45:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 16:45:09 -0700 From: ".alyn.post." To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] any-word-SA-handling clarification Message-ID: <20110112234509.GB1262@alice.local> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: <20110112141124.GA866@alice.local> <20110112184918.GP2132@digitalkingdom.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.213.45 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="x+6KMIRAuhnl3hBn" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --x+6KMIRAuhnl3hBn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 07:44:19PM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 3:49 PM, Robin Lee Powell > wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 07:11:24AM -0700, .alyn.post. wrote: > >> The Lojban PEG grammar has the following production: > >> > >> any-word-SA-handling <- BRIVLA-pre > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 / known-cmavo-SA > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 / !known-cmavo-pre > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 CMAVO-pre > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 / CMENE-pre > >> > >> This is the only production which uses known-cmavo-SA, > >> known-cmavo-pre, and CMAVO-pre. =A0I'm trying to determine how these > >> productions interact, but these rules intersect the morphology > >> interface in camxes, and I would appreciate help understanding > >> them. > > > > Good luck. =A0-_- > > > > The *goal* is to match > > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=3DMagic+Words , IIRC. > > It's really complicated. > > > > The design there is to match any word, but also to slurp SA clauses. > > SA, as used there, only affects cmavo; [selma'o] ... SA [same > > selma'o] =3D=3D one cmavo of that selma'o. >=20 > That was your original version, but then you changed it. Now SA does > something different, it doesn't just look at the selma'o of the > following word, but at a whole following structure. Either way it's a > big mess. We really should think seriously about SA at some point, and > either make something sensible with it or just drop it. It's no wonder > that anyone will be confused by rules that have to do with SA because > they were written for one version and then sort of adapted to > something else. I believe Alan is correct that the current > any-word-SA-handling rule contains unnecessary fluff for the current > version. >=20 Robin, I've attached a patch that removes *most* of the commented-out productions in the lojban.peg file you've checked into github. This patch removes the commented-out rules having to do with SA handling, and in one sense can be seen as a continuation of removing the *-no-SA-handling in the PEG grammar. I'm not at the point yet where I'm testing SA, so I don't really know if these rules work better than the ones that aren't commented out. camxes is using the not-these, however. Can they go? -Alan --=20 .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --x+6KMIRAuhnl3hBn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="lojban.peg.no-prior-sa" --- lojban.peg.orig Wed Jan 12 08:05:13 2011 +++ lojban.peg Wed Jan 12 08:10:07 2011 @@ -27,7 +27,6 @@ intro-null <- spaces? su-clause* intro-si-clause text-part-2 <- (CMENE-clause+ / indicators?) free* -;; SPACE intro-sa-clause <- SA-clause+ / any-word-SA-handling !(ZEI-clause SA-clause) intro-sa-clause SPACE intro-si-clause <- si-clause? SI-clause* SPACE faho-clause <- (FAhO-clause dot-star)? @@ -52,8 +51,6 @@ prenex <- terms ZOhU-clause free* -;; sentence <- (terms CU-clause? free*)? bridi-tail / bridi-tail - sentence <- (terms bridi-tail-sa* CU-clause? free*)? bridi-tail-sa* bridi-tail SPACE sentence-sa <- sentence-start (!sentence-start (sa-word / SA-clause !sentence-start ) )* SA-clause &text-1 @@ -80,10 +77,6 @@ terms <- terms-1+ -;; terms-1 <- terms-2 (PEhE-clause free* joik-jek terms-2)* - -;; terms-2 <- term (CEhE-clause free* term)* - terms-1 <- terms-2 (pehe-sa* PEhE-clause free* joik-jek terms-2)* terms-2 <- term (cehe-sa* CEhE-clause free* term)* @@ -92,8 +85,6 @@ SPACE cehe-sa <- CEhE-clause (!CEhE-clause (sa-word / SA-clause !CEhE-clause))* SA-clause -;;term <- sumti / ( !gek (tag / FA-clause free*) (sumti / KU-clause? free*) ) / termset / NA-clause KU-clause free* - term <- term-sa* term-1 term-1 <- sumti / ( !gek (tag / FA-clause free*) (sumti / KU-clause? free*) ) / termset / NA-clause KU-clause free* @@ -130,8 +121,6 @@ relative-clauses <- relative-clause (ZIhE-clause free* relative-clause)* -;; relative-clause <- GOI-clause free* term GEhU-clause? free* / NOI-clause free* subsentence KUhO-clause? free* - relative-clause <- relative-clause-sa* relative-clause-1 SPACE relative-clause-sa <- relative-clause-start (!relative-clause-start (sa-word / SA-clause !relative-clause-start ) )* SA-clause &relative-clause-1 @@ -171,8 +160,6 @@ linkargs-start <- BE-clause -;; links <- BEI-clause free* term links? - links <- links-sa* links-1 links-1 <- BEI-clause free* term links? @@ -183,8 +170,6 @@ quantifier <- number !MOI-clause BOI-clause? free* / VEI-clause free* mex VEhO-clause? free* -;;mex <- mex-1 (operator mex-1)* / rp-clause - mex <- mex-sa* mex-0 mex-0 <- mex-1 (operator mex-1)* / rp-clause @@ -213,8 +198,6 @@ rp-expression <- operand rp-expression-tail rp-expression-tail <- rp-expression operator rp-expression-tail / () -;; operator <- operator-1 (joik-jek operator-1 / joik stag? KE-clause free* operator KEhE-clause? free*)* - operator <- operator-sa* operator-0 operator-0 <- operator-1 (joik-jek operator-1 / joik stag? KE-clause free* operator KEhE-clause? free*)* @@ -229,8 +212,6 @@ mex-operator <- SE-clause free* mex-operator / NAhE-clause free* mex-operator / MAhO-clause free* mex TEhU-clause? free* / NAhU-clause free* selbri TEhU-clause? free* / VUhU-clause free* -;; operand <- operand-1 (joik-ek stag? KE-clause free* operand KEhE-clause? free*)? - operand <- operand-sa* operand-0 operand-0 <- operand-1 (joik-ek stag? KE-clause free* operand KEhE-clause? free*)? @@ -254,7 +235,6 @@ ek <- NA-clause? SE-clause? A-clause NAI-clause? -;; gihek <- NA-clause? SE-clause? GIhA-clause NAI-clause? gihek <- gihek-sa* gihek-1 gihek-1 <- NA-clause? SE-clause? GIhA-clause NAI-clause? @@ -267,7 +247,6 @@ interval <- SE-clause? BIhI-clause NAI-clause? -;; joik-ek <- joik free* / ek free* joik-ek <- joik-ek-sa* joik-ek-1 joik-ek-1 <- (joik free* / ek free*) --x+6KMIRAuhnl3hBn--