From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBD5nrzpBBoEkhV31Q@googlegroups.com Thu Jan 13 06:43:23 2011 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PdOOS-00010h-V2; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:43:20 -0800 Received: by yxn35 with SMTP id 35sf1371181yxn.16 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:43:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=xH2u6BllKXijmyFL2qFaxhKY4wzO+zM1f6uctEv7+Fc=; b=exgvHihITeedh4pjPzs5iaXdrh3xdKsSMGVVT4xFSMsgXMgyWpy4pqIFuNRr/EdUOH TB+/AK//SuYTOAAWZNHiZL1w+8dskyv4zgIN55yXQyLUH6ZTXpZtCxeu2Pf2GplaV7v/ VSnCn7ArSgEOFnmKPirNo3qxMZ7cw3rgMIAiU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=5ZcRdAuwQVLaP8zVmXssg+9RsJ3/HGlEMUIBv1tkShBkgE9CLNaiytjqOu16JjUDOk 7Yk5Xew07w6tJdM3xSm5ZBtve6eek+Gw73LlQsRCC/KAnwb9dAfXTATQxlaEHBuJL3I5 DqfNu9uT9U+sWe77127u+0BRJkE0MVT8Qm1PA= Received: by 10.90.55.10 with SMTP id d10mr11735aga.17.1294929785906; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:43:05 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.2.82 with SMTP id 18ls202011ibi.2.p; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:43:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.14.67 with SMTP id f3mr1375682iba.15.1294929784383; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:43:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.14.67 with SMTP id f3mr1375680iba.15.1294929784314; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:43:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f177.google.com (mail-iw0-f177.google.com [209.85.214.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j25si32501ibb.0.2011.01.13.06.43.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:43:03 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.177; Received: by mail-iw0-f177.google.com with SMTP id 38so1615474iwn.36 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:43:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.35.1 with SMTP id n1mr2502259ibd.0.1294929783094; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:43:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.200.148 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:43:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20110113024007.GE1262@alice.local> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 09:43:03 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] will you help me understand BAhE+BU? From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=002215046b87bb00980499bb55ca --002215046b87bb00980499bb55ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My bad. Then I would read {ba'e pe'a} as something similar to {pe'a je'u} On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > But the problem is that je'u, like pe'a, is a UI, they modify what > comes BEFORE them. Ba'e works the opposite way, it marks the NEXT > single word. > --gy > > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Luke Bergen > wrote: > > I can't speak for others, but I'd read {ba'e pe'a} as something similar > to > > {je'u pe'a} as in "this is REALLY figurative, there is NO literal > component > > to what I'm saying". > > Maybe used in one of those conversations like "so, a .... friend of min= e > is > > having this problem..." > > > > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Michael Turniansky < > mturniansky@gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> > >> 2011/1/13 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > >> > On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:40 PM, .alyn.post. > >> > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> What does BAhE+BU do? > >> > [...] > >> >> The phrases describing {ba'e} are quite > >> >> unclear to me, and they seem a bit contradictory (which could be > >> >> because the phrases are coming from documents with different > >> >> opinions on the matter.) > >> > > >> > Exactly. There are two options for BAhE BU, both can be defended, an= d > >> > until we have an grammar there is no definitive official answer. > >> > (According to the current PEG it appears to be an emphasized BU, not= a > >> > converted BAhE.) > >> > > >> > mu'o mi'e xorxes > >> > > >> ...although ISTM that a symbol meaning "ba'e" (i.e. a ba'ebu) might > >> be a more (ba'e) useful thing to have in the language than an > >> emphasized bu. I'm still mystified by the meaning of ba'e pe'a, > >> personally... > >> --gejyspa > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "lojban" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > >> > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps > > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --002215046b87bb00980499bb55ca Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My bad. =A0Then I would read {ba'e pe'a} as something similar to {p= e'a je'u}

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at= 9:33 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0But the problem is that je'u, like = pe'a, is a UI, they modify what
comes BEFORE them. =A0Ba'e works the opposite way, it marks the NEXT single word.
=A0 =A0 =A0 --gy

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> I can't speak for others, but I'd read {ba'e pe'a} as = something similar to
> {je'u pe'a} as in "this is REALLY figurative, there is NO= literal component
> to what I'm saying".
> Maybe used in one of those conversations like "so, a .... friend = of mine is
> having this problem..."
>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> 2011/1/13 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
>> > On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:40 PM, .alyn.post.
>> > <alyn.po= st@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> =A0What does BAhE+BU do?
>> > [...]
>> >> =A0The phrases describing {ba'e} are quite
>> >> unclear to me, and they seem a bit contradictory (which c= ould be
>> >> because the phrases are coming from documents with differ= ent
>> >> opinions on the matter.)
>> >
>> > Exactly. There are two options for BAhE BU, both can be defen= ded, and
>> > until we have an grammar there is no definitive official answ= er.
>> > (According to the current PEG it appears to be an emphasized = BU, not a
>> > converted BAhE.)
>> >
>> > mu'o mi'e xorxes
>> >
>> =A0...although ISTM that a symbol meaning "ba'e" (i.= e. a ba'ebu) might
>> be a more (ba'e) useful thing to have in the language than an<= br> >> emphasized bu. =A0I'm still mystified by the meaning of ba'= ;e pe'a,
>> personally...
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= Groups
>> "lojban" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubs= cribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>

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