From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhC0pbzpBBoEaxJKZw@googlegroups.com Thu Jan 13 06:57:09 2011 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PdObn-0001Qy-Va; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:57:09 -0800 Received: by qwd6 with SMTP id 6sf3717747qwd.16 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:56:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=r95fxVJgrCPSB2YO0yyAnCQwXPv3S//lfknvGCdwKH8=; b=toTxYW321b4I0ZI5VQOWQjKX4QjXlS2GU+sbMmSzQk87kBVleSxsgbAToFL4ROlLJU UZkL03mLUUHiKw8jAwu6uXC670bIM2xhrayBfpNJQnAHggKOu7hvy9GebAsJCV5nZIIX BJpxH4T3NF/3DD75b2Szyr9nq8JR2XGIVneV4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=KulzXcX4qGsOiA6RRR8X6Zp15RuuMyv65AMmP0Z/V5dLf1ZcmxlPvkkXNNgfRhMf+T vkclHLTVzXTtoDRc5Z6JOaWlqeMLXDj8d9PotKxSh/Z/k8iPzvd5pbuGIvDUv+RfuT4M vf3MmijZTHo2Z6hd3Cl1Akh+2wVNHARRjfhMg= Received: by 10.229.136.204 with SMTP id s12mr343796qct.8.1294930612473; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:56:52 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.195.134 with SMTP id ec6ls628463qcb.2.p; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:56:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.67.218 with SMTP id s26mr343643qci.16.1294930611750; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:56:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.67.218 with SMTP id s26mr343642qci.16.1294930611699; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:56:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qy0-f177.google.com (mail-qy0-f177.google.com [209.85.216.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y9si31377qcc.4.2011.01.13.06.56.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:56:50 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.177; Received: by mail-qy0-f177.google.com with SMTP id 27so2132573qyk.15 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:56:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.186.15 with SMTP id cq15mr2029442qcb.137.1294930610570; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:56:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.213.204 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:56:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20110113024007.GE1262@alice.local> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 09:56:50 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] will you help me understand BAhE+BU? From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But an equal and opposite argument could be made that it means that the ba'e should only be taken figuratively. mi mutce lo nu se cfipu --gejyspa lo du'u nei cu jitfa ro da va'o lo nu da'i dei se cusku lo drata be la gej= yspa On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > My bad. =A0Then I would read {ba'e pe'a} as something similar to {pe'a je= 'u} > > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: >> >> =A0But the problem is that je'u, like pe'a, is a UI, they modify what >> comes BEFORE them. =A0Ba'e works the opposite way, it marks the NEXT >> single word. >> =A0 =A0 =A0 --gy >> >> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Luke Bergen >> wrote: >> > I can't speak for others, but I'd read {ba'e pe'a} as something simila= r >> > to >> > {je'u pe'a} as in "this is REALLY figurative, there is NO literal >> > component >> > to what I'm saying". >> > Maybe used in one of those conversations like "so, a .... friend of mi= ne >> > is >> > having this problem..." >> > >> > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Michael Turniansky >> > >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> 2011/1/13 Jorge Llamb=EDas : >> >> > On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:40 PM, .alyn.post. >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> =A0What does BAhE+BU do? >> >> > [...] >> >> >> =A0The phrases describing {ba'e} are quite >> >> >> unclear to me, and they seem a bit contradictory (which could be >> >> >> because the phrases are coming from documents with different >> >> >> opinions on the matter.) >> >> > >> >> > Exactly. There are two options for BAhE BU, both can be defended, a= nd >> >> > until we have an grammar there is no definitive official answer. >> >> > (According to the current PEG it appears to be an emphasized BU, no= t >> >> > a >> >> > converted BAhE.) >> >> > >> >> > mu'o mi'e xorxes >> >> > >> >> =A0...although ISTM that a symbol meaning "ba'e" (i.e. a ba'ebu) migh= t >> >> be a more (ba'e) useful thing to have in the language than an >> >> emphasized bu. =A0I'm still mystified by the meaning of ba'e pe'a, >> >> personally... >> >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups >> >> "lojban" group. >> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups >> > "lojban" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. 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