From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhC3tL3pBBoElgG1wQ@googlegroups.com Thu Jan 13 12:02:15 2011 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PdTN4-0002zt-VG; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:02:15 -0800 Received: by vws1 with SMTP id 1sf2686457vws.16 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:02:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=V2n3wFUnVvfjJLBxw5l4ooeJytxmHUEinwk0IF5p6rw=; b=D7QmY6CisrC8lVc8m41W5RX/aLIoqrTR6vq/WPbZHAghRfQzF04StY+v6JrFlHbVVB RR5pTbTEe9LQ26ZZRlAiatHQ2Ds/j0fsltpJaUTo0vIuhgxC+6KaksO/9oC7UECLb3Ik ihK0hqHtRmOiF2pZyJ/sxL33mgVcpPdEtkwfE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=t3CntRX6XqSO3m10tuxS7swyB2nnHeRPDrzDYEuinUKroqczxrJcMtgSNGXPTvW9ny 48sx2ToKXXaMXkSpM4SPIzFChgbGCrgyQB9/6qe4as9WSCB8OSl094hYFcDVFuvdGSY0 IHcHRH4xtWHCsAgf7rlOBbqF2V0mRo+jHdPmY= Received: by 10.220.202.9 with SMTP id fc9mr43040vcb.57.1294948919863; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:01:59 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.64.95 with SMTP id d31ls237246vci.3.p; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:01:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.176.10 with SMTP id bc10mr1650145vcb.24.1294948918679; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:01:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.176.10 with SMTP id bc10mr1650144vcb.24.1294948918653; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:01:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qw0-f48.google.com (mail-qw0-f48.google.com [209.85.216.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l22si32908vbn.4.2011.01.13.12.01.57; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:01:57 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.48; Received: by qwh6 with SMTP id 6so2263417qwh.7 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:01:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.186.15 with SMTP id cq15mr2270460qcb.137.1294948917336; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:01:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.213.204 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:01:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20110113194830.GD2132@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20110113024007.GE1262@alice.local> <20110113193746.GB2132@digitalkingdom.org> <20110113194830.GD2132@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 15:01:57 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] will you help me understand BAhE+BU? From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah, no. I've used it 11 times in my published works (Esther once, Terry the Tiger once, Berenstain Bears and the Prize Pumpkin 9 times). Sorry, eleven times is just TOO MUCH to have to go back and retrofit. ei mi renro do fi'o se zutse fanmo lo zargu be do --gejyspa On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:37:46AM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote: >> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 07:40:07PM -0700, .alyn.post. wrote: >> > I'm trying to make sense of various statements about Magic Words >> > on the wiki: >> > >> > =A0 (BAhE, even though it can modify any word, is not a magic >> > =A0 word, because it doesn't affect the function of the word it >> > =A0 modifies)[1] >> >> I wonder what would happen if I simply declared by fiat that ba'e >> is deprecated, and you should use ge'e or another UI instead >> (since AFAICT they have exactly the same "meaning" (or, rather, >> lack of meaning)), and in 2 years if no insurmountable problems >> are found it'll be removed from the grammar? >> >> This strikes me as about the largest change I could make without >> immediately being tossed out on my ass. -_- > > We'd need a za'e replacement too. =A0Which doesn't seem hard. > > For what it's worth, the fact that BAhE performs inappropriate > carnal acts on the PEG grammar actually isn't as important to me as > it being basically a UI in how it's used, but with a totally > different grammar from *everything else in the language*. =A0The only > other thing that works even remotely like BAhE is ZO. =A0In and of > itself this wouldn't be *so* bad, but in basically every semantic > respect it works just like UI. =A0It's awful. > > ZEI is also crazy-exceptional, but at least it's *useful*. =A0There's > nothing else you can replace ZEI with without making a new > grammatical construct. =A0But BAhE is *trivially* replaced with a > couple of UI, with no loss of expressive power. =A0It's just awful. > > -Robin > > -- > http://singinst.org/ : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. 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