From lojban+bncCK30vq5WEKq3vekEGgTsHIrH@googlegroups.com Thu Jan 13 12:08:24 2011 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PdTT2-0003UM-Ds; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:08:24 -0800 Received: by pvh1 with SMTP id 1sf224089pvh.16 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:08:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject :message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3A7MyrWszFDdZfOs+hcithQtA0/9nO6KGh9K1fjK+Aw=; b=49MjLt/GtMyDIDVE54Dvp0KuWDg1egWuGEBJJvaqbuaL3junOk4hIlExAY6EqC/oEr NBvhYk+sKB+fqZPepKARPkB4DD17UXUGsl1HKGk73brHIsr7IG4JeWkuMUJJ4lHPc2cv mddtxg/LdfTb4MqZyDp0igHUUjKtNzneoS0w0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding; b=AU1ZIQH5MlGarscHTnc4kKom8Hsmy9yN9GS1PWHifF5uaU2aRmVm7HqHoyKq2r7PiI Zbs916B94L9+XWuThAy+Wo5KA3qrwWYswNJKQYZYFPaXqZ6THxENIMajyzB/sHDiKl+l gGiKOSbIfwZlaNPTnYhA/1LOpAtnx9UIsrpjI= Received: by 10.142.225.10 with SMTP id x10mr1450wfg.19.1294949290344; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:08:10 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.2.41 with SMTP id 41ls2441958wfb.0.p; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.173.8 with SMTP id v8mr987453wfe.39.1294949289054; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.173.8 with SMTP id v8mr987451wfe.39.1294949289018; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org (digitalkingdom.org [173.13.139.234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f13si457194wfo.0.2011.01.13.12.08.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.234; Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PdTSq-0003U9-B2 for lojban@googlegroups.com; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:08:08 -0800 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:08:08 -0800 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] will you help me understand BAhE+BU? Message-ID: <20110113200808.GE2132@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20110113024007.GE1262@alice.local> <20110113193746.GB2132@digitalkingdom.org> <20110113194830.GD2132@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's why I suggested a deprecation cycle, rather than simply changing it. It would therefore be obivous which works fell into which category. Also, we wouldn't re-use ba'e for anything for quite some time. -Robin On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 03:01:57PM -0500, Michael Turniansky wrote: > Yeah, no. I've used it 11 times in my published works (Esther > once, Terry the Tiger once, Berenstain Bears and the Prize Pumpkin > 9 times). Sorry, eleven times is just TOO MUCH to have to go back > and retrofit. ei mi renro do fi'o se zutse fanmo lo zargu be do > > --gejyspa >=20 >=20 > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Robin Lee Powell > wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:37:46AM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > >> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 07:40:07PM -0700, .alyn.post. wrote: > >> > I'm trying to make sense of various statements about Magic Words > >> > on the wiki: > >> > > >> > =A0 (BAhE, even though it can modify any word, is not a magic > >> > =A0 word, because it doesn't affect the function of the word it > >> > =A0 modifies)[1] > >> > >> I wonder what would happen if I simply declared by fiat that ba'e > >> is deprecated, and you should use ge'e or another UI instead > >> (since AFAICT they have exactly the same "meaning" (or, rather, > >> lack of meaning)), and in 2 years if no insurmountable problems > >> are found it'll be removed from the grammar? > >> > >> This strikes me as about the largest change I could make without > >> immediately being tossed out on my ass. -_- > > > > We'd need a za'e replacement too. =A0Which doesn't seem hard. > > > > For what it's worth, the fact that BAhE performs inappropriate > > carnal acts on the PEG grammar actually isn't as important to me as > > it being basically a UI in how it's used, but with a totally > > different grammar from *everything else in the language*. =A0The only > > other thing that works even remotely like BAhE is ZO. =A0In and of > > itself this wouldn't be *so* bad, but in basically every semantic > > respect it works just like UI. =A0It's awful. > > > > ZEI is also crazy-exceptional, but at least it's *useful*. =A0There's > > nothing else you can replace ZEI with without making a new > > grammatical construct. =A0But BAhE is *trivially* replaced with a > > couple of UI, with no loss of expressive power. =A0It's just awful. > > > > -Robin > > > > -- > > http://singinst.org/ : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > > is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@google= groups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lo= jban?hl=3Den. > > > > >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 --=20 http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.