From lojban+bncCLr6ktCfBBCxrcnpBBoEQAD_IA@googlegroups.com Sat Jan 15 18:24:01 2011 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PeIHd-0000DZ-Ew; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:24:01 -0800 Received: by yxn35 with SMTP id 35sf2973833yxn.16 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:23:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject :message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; bh=KSz2RNMb1fl3IqTwhy2P7eLMWs5duirKWgWwsA8WM2g=; b=IPAWnWpfxn8lmm+Hp8xta0XvD4wc3KK2s+4Nkq40vsLeLeia4X3bh6xFPpEkZQieWT bzHnl+IYL7C8/FXQXvGexowpc720E+JZPmH7VsSbYjy/2+gN3T64W3wxdr9CwOtqDeHj Np2QKUXeVgJL9Y/m8ZVk21TDv+BSHee3Ol5pI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; b=eYAWrdOD2NkmILL0rFAC1/+T14H75feq7reGFUb67EtpmGVnB5DmsP/OF1EsWgkVZV hgxD6V4tF1TYI5CQdmkVYbs4uoG5D2EHK3i8N+1sVAnXM/opTzMKTuQE3ABLNUVsoVjv IA4Ibe/GI0/0Ua1UY+Kkpt/EZKYC7rQVcv1UM= Received: by 10.91.17.21 with SMTP id u21mr174621agi.43.1295144625367; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:23:45 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.100.239.3 with SMTP id m3ls722592anh.0.p; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:23:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.31.18 with SMTP id e18mr669172ane.35.1295144624773; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:23:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.31.18 with SMTP id e18mr669171ane.35.1295144624750; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:23:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yi0-f41.google.com (mail-yi0-f41.google.com [209.85.218.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id c30si1075200anc.9.2011.01.15.18.23.44; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:23:44 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.218.41 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=209.85.218.41; Received: by yia25 with SMTP id 25so2020753yia.14 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:23:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.109.131 with SMTP id s3mr5097921yhg.92.1295144624318; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:23:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net [68.35.167.179]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 50sm1836598yhl.29.2011.01.15.18.23.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:23:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 19:23:39 -0700 From: ".alyn.post." To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] question about ku Message-ID: <20110116022339.GC7994@alice.local> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.218.41 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Luke, I went hunting and found this in the CLL: http://dag.github.com/cll/20/ selma'o KU (Chapter 6, Chapter 10) Elidable terminator for LE and some uses of LA. Indicates the end of a description sumti. Also used after a tense or modal to indicate that no sumti follows, and in the compound NA+KU to indicate natural language-style negation. I didn't find an example of terminating a tense or modal with {ku}, but I wasn't exhaustive in my search. I'm happy I found some mention of this usage. -Alan On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 07:08:29PM -0500, Luke Bergen wrote: > This is the meat of my question. My initial guess was that {ba} expects a > sumti as is the case with {mi citka lo plise ba lo nu mi xagji} and that > putting it before the selbri or terminating it with {ku} is just a way of > saying "forget that sumti, it's zo'e or something". But the only way of > getting that is for there to be an implicit {lo} OR {ku} is special in > that it terminates tags like LE, BAI, BA, (and FA?). But that doesn't seem > right because then why wouldn't the ku be necessary in the case of {mi ba > [ku] citka lo plise}? > > I wish I understood PEG better. > On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 6:53 PM, Ian Johnson <[1]blindbravado@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Still no idea why ku can terminate two completely unrelated selma'o, > though. > > mu'o mi'e .latros. > > On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Luke Bergen <[2]lukeabergen@gmail.com> > wrote: > > I don't know why it just occurred to me but... what exactly is "ku" > terminatiging in "baku mi citka"? Is there an implicit "lo" so that > parsers see this as /really/ being something like "baloku mi citka"? > Or is ku just able to terminate "ba"? I didn't know that BA had a > terminator... either way something feels strange. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to [3]lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [4]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > [5]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to [6]lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [7]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > [8]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > References > > Visible links > 1. mailto:blindbravado@gmail.com > 2. mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com > 3. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com > 4. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com > 5. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en > 6. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com > 7. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com > 8. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en -- .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.