From lojban+bncCLr6ktCfBBCoucnpBBoEMWKUow@googlegroups.com Sat Jan 15 18:49:30 2011 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PeIgH-0006C7-JC; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:49:30 -0800 Received: by gyb11 with SMTP id 11sf2953716gyb.16 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:49:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject :message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; bh=gqsYpQlBoT7Mou3NhjcKzAe7gw6WT9aGt0sSCRBL5e8=; b=Jui655wAccspWiRohoeB5wd+9rE4DV3PQRiKgpdCITurHuigGEF0U1d7Nmo3bvZaC8 11ATQ1NUaajOJ0V9+611RkZiTASiK07NX1KW++E7dj5KnT7Bjbx/fjjiYrWV75ZVFKza xgz+jA/4z0v/Zy5p4DrjPi5Wtjg+sWAxqZ9zA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; b=rkzukflQ864FqjRwUm76ayMuI4mxCLXZsyPwpeuOyxN9Dl9caWiwYPoD6GDPCROfff fl2qw1/hGwOypwNvDnLspEWboaof3du3AyEmJgKd1mBMUwhZqGV9TAU+Tt1GfqwoJn7Q jBueJLZAelJ24JMICAzkJWaLxDDGDfe9r1aj0= Received: by 10.90.100.18 with SMTP id x18mr181079agb.18.1295146152745; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:49:12 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.200.3 with SMTP id eu3ls3927272ibb.1.p; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:49:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.166.138 with SMTP id o10mr191150icy.97.1295146152105; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:49:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.166.138 with SMTP id o10mr191149icy.97.1295146152091; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:49:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id m30si749535ibu.2.2011.01.15.18.49.12; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:49:12 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.210.182 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=209.85.210.182; Received: by mail-iy0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 26so3752153iyb.13 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:49:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.179.133 with SMTP id bq5mr2716345icb.191.1295146151417; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:49:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net [68.35.167.179]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f5sm2256992icu.16.2011.01.15.18.49.09 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:49:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 19:49:06 -0700 From: ".alyn.post." To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] question about ku Message-ID: <20110116024906.GE7994@alice.local> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: <20110116022339.GC7994@alice.local> <20110116022720.GD7994@alice.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.210.182 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline I get something out of doing those hunts, so I'll continue doing them. They're useful to me. Thank you for understanding. :-) This was all new and surprising to me. -Alan On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 09:42:17PM -0500, Luke Bergen wrote: > Which is not to put down your hunting. Thanks for the links. I really > should get around to reading through the CLL again. It's been a while and > I'm getting rusty on some of it. > > On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 9:27 PM, .alyn.post. > <[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote: > > dur: correcting myself, it's mentioned: > > [2]http://dag.github.com/cll/10/1/ > > I did a terrible job of looking. :-) > > -Alan > On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 07:23:39PM -0700, .alyn.post. wrote: > > Luke, I went hunting and found this in the CLL: > > > > [3]http://dag.github.com/cll/20/ > > > > selma'o KU (Chapter 6, Chapter 10) > > > > Elidable terminator for LE and some uses of LA. Indicates the end of > > a description sumti. Also used after a tense or modal to indicate > > that no sumti follows, and in the compound NA+KU to indicate natural > > language-style negation. > > > > I didn't find an example of terminating a tense or modal with {ku}, > > but I wasn't exhaustive in my search. I'm happy I found some > > mention of this usage. > > > > -Alan > > > > On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 07:08:29PM -0500, Luke Bergen wrote: > > > This is the meat of my question. My initial guess was that {ba} > expects a > > > sumti as is the case with {mi citka lo plise ba lo nu mi xagji} and > that > > > putting it before the selbri or terminating it with {ku} is just a > way of > > > saying "forget that sumti, it's zo'e or something". But the only way > of > > > getting that is for there to be an implicit {lo} OR {ku} is special > in > > > that it terminates tags like LE, BAI, BA, (and FA?). But that > doesn't seem > > > right because then why wouldn't the ku be necessary in the case of > {mi ba > > > [ku] citka lo plise}? > > > > > > I wish I understood PEG better. > > > On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 6:53 PM, Ian Johnson > <[1][4]blindbravado@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > Still no idea why ku can terminate two completely unrelated selma'o, > > > though. > > > > > > mu'o mi'e .latros. > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Luke Bergen > <[2][5]lukeabergen@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > I don't know why it just occurred to me but... what exactly is "ku" > > > terminatiging in "baku mi citka"? Is there an implicit "lo" so that > > > parsers see this as /really/ being something like "baloku mi citka"? > > > Or is ku just able to terminate "ba"? I didn't know that BA had a > > > terminator... either way something feels strange. > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups "lojban" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [3][6]lojban@googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [4][7]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > [5][8]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups "lojban" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [6][9]lojban@googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [7][10]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > [8][11]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "lojban" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [12]lojban@googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [13]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > [14]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > > References > > > > > > Visible links > > > 1. mailto:[15]blindbravado@gmail.com > > > 2. mailto:[16]lukeabergen@gmail.com > > > 3. mailto:[17]lojban@googlegroups.com > > > 4. mailto:[18]lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com > > > 5. [19]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en > > > 6. mailto:[20]lojban@googlegroups.com > > > 7. mailto:[21]lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com > > > 8. [22]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en > > > > -- > > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi > > -- > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to [23]lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [24]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > [25]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > References > > Visible links > 1. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org > 2. http://dag.github.com/cll/10/1/ > 3. http://dag.github.com/cll/20/ > 4. mailto:blindbravado@gmail.com > 5. mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com > 6. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com > 7. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com > 8. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en > 9. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com > 10. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com > 11. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en > 12. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com > 13. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com > 14. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en > 15. mailto:blindbravado@gmail.com > 16. mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com > 17. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com > 18. mailto:lojban%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com > 19. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en > 20. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com > 21. mailto:lojban%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com > 22. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en > 23. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com > 24. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com > 25. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en -- .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.