From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhCGmvfpBBoE5cKWvA@googlegroups.com Mon Jan 24 11:03:54 2011 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PhRhc-0003S7-51; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:03:54 -0800 Received: by qyl38 with SMTP id 38sf12468229qyl.16 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:03:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=kKmqeDuj88srms1MEs034C6jQWXfVNVkAEKpxn2gFk4=; b=ZztTaGgyCylxQa5Kk/YJXtkwI3lTyyE5Vs0spUB5Ai/E3OGqsNK5TkP4ABMifSndAH /aNsR0Lbo7puVlLKWH3nGzJ51URLJHaUBxbFWGGZH+53u7gM2dFU0y6L+c7eWETBdO58 /XhunRV4J0AFCaGCbq6b9L1Oh0hCHWpuHqzjY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=uUS38jCdWMQLtnb+uaTF6bhfdhJjyW46QmjzvNuW1wkos+k/aTObBg2XWD7e4WqGcB /BCEPIoiSQUHUMLJEybvBv4NwKt4bD1KwLaiNoFLtH6Gig5pi13sxe6hfuSjwrxdedBx onrqTarGXWfXtszCq1Bx6egokGpjP6nKnf6bs= Received: by 10.229.224.1 with SMTP id im1mr554922qcb.41.1295895814583; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:03:34 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.179.137 with SMTP id bq9ls925267qab.6.p; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:03:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.61.11 with SMTP id r11mr528102qah.15.1295895813772; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:03:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.61.11 with SMTP id r11mr528101qah.15.1295895813688; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:03:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qw0-f48.google.com (mail-qw0-f48.google.com [209.85.216.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p18si521431qcg.8.2011.01.24.11.03.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.48; Received: by mail-qw0-f48.google.com with SMTP id 6so4399569qwh.35 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:03:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.89.78 with SMTP id d14mr4050263qcm.251.1295895812328; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.213.204 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:03:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <647953.32901.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:03:32 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] lo drata darlu From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable lo se na'e curmi cu tolvri ca'e .i no prenu ka'e djuno fi lo balvi .i la'acu'i do ji'a bazi morsi gi'e na mulgau lo danfu be tu'a lo kenra .i la'acu'i ba lo nu do mikce fi lo kenra kei do snuti finti lo mutce vidru noi catra pa gigdo be lo prenu .i semu'inai bo do bilga lo nu cuxna tu'a do du'o lo brojda --gejyspa On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > oh wow. =A0{nurxru} would have been an amazingly useful word when I was > putting together earlier emails. =A0That's a handy one. =A0Also, thanks g= ejyspa, > not sure why I was thinking sev. > ta'onai mi na casnu tu'a lo se curmi .i mi casnu tu'a lo se virnu > .i mi jinvi lo du'u lo nu da seznurxru ki'unai lo nu de mrobi'o keikei cu > virnu va'o lo nu lo nu seznurxru kei cu rinka tu'a lo zmadu xamgu > .isa'u da'i mi bazi facki lo micyske be fi la .cancer. .i mi tolvirnu lo = nu > da'i nurxru lo drata mu'inai lo nu mi morsi .iki'ubo so'i prenu cu mrobi'= o > ki'u lo nu mi morsi je nurxru lo drata > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: >> >> ka'u ro remna =A0cu se =A0vamji lo cimni zi'o lo nu jmive .i seni'ibo va= 'o >> da'i lo nu do bilga lo nu cuxna pa da lo nu do jmive kei ce lo nu lo >> drata cu jmive keikei do bilga lo cuxna tu'a do .i lo nu de catra di >> seva'u de cu se tolcru .iku'i lo nu de na'e nurxru di tezu'e lo nu de >> jmive kei kei cu se curmi >> >> (BTW, Luke, you're using "sev-" where I think you mean "sez/se'i") >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa >> >> On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 2:00 PM, John E. Clifford >> wrote: >> > Not to mention the whole question of whether the greatest good >> > --whatever >> > that means -- is an appropriate basis for ethical decisions. >> > >> > Sent from my iPad >> > On Jan 21, 2011, at 10:26, Luke Bergen wrote: >> > >> > .i'ecai >> > .iku'i so'i prenu cu krici lo du'u broda mintu lo selvirnu .i broda ce= i >> > ko'a >> > zukte fi lo nu=A0jmive ja=A0gleki ja=A0xamgu lo drata kei=A0ki'unai lo= nu zukte >> > cu >> > xlali ko'a >> > mi nelci lo selsku be do doi stevo >> > .i na virnu ro lo nu toldjuno zukte >> > Of course, that flies in the face of the classic act of heroism where = a >> > guy >> > throws himself in front of a bus in order to shove a complete stranger >> > out >> > of the way. =A0But, as per my earlier argument, it is kind of naive to >> > assume >> > that you're life is worth less than that of a complete stranger. =A0In >> > case my >> > lojban is, again, too funky for clear understanding: =A0many people >> > believe >> > that selflessness is synonymous with virtue. >> > In reality, it is sometimes the case that "the greatest good" happens = to >> > coincide with a good outcome for "you". =A0To assume that that never >> > happens >> > is naive. >> > On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:16 AM, MorphemeAddict >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Nothing done blindly is virtuous. >> >> >> >> stevo >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 6:56 PM, Luke Bergen >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> .u'u .i sa'u .i broda cei ko'a sevmrori'a va'ojemu'i lo nu lo nu nei >> >>> kei >> >>> cu rinka lo nu lo drata cu jmive .i brode cei ko'a na'e pensi gi'e >> >>> romoi >> >>> broda va'o lo nu cumki .i brodi cei ko'a pensi .ijebo va'o lo nu lo >> >>> drata cu >> >>> zmadu ko'a lo ka vajni lo remna keikei ko'a broda lo drata .iku'ibo >> >>> va'o lo >> >>> nu ko'a zmadu lo drata kei ko'a na broda .i zmadu fi lo ka virdu kei >> >>> fi'a >> >>> brode fi'a brodi >> >>> >> >>> .u'ucai >> >>> >> >>> I think this is one of those times where my lojban is just not up to >> >>> the >> >>> task of expressing such a complex concept.=A0 In english then:=A0 is= it >> >>> more >> >>> virtuous to blindly sacrifice onesself in order to save another, or = is >> >>> it >> >>> more virtuous to consider probabalistically which life is more >> >>> important to >> >>> hummanity and act accordingly? >> >>> >> >>> i.e. if bob is on the brink of a breakthrough cure for cancer, shoul= d >> >>> he >> >>> be considered virtuous for sacrificing his life to save a homeless g= uy >> >>> on >> >>> the street? >> >>> >> >>> On Jan 20, 2011 5:16 PM, "Jorge Llamb=EDas" >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>> Groups >> >>> "lojban" group. >> >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >>> For more options, visit this group at >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups >> >> "lojban" group. >> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups >> > "lojban" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups >> > "lojban" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.