From lojban+bncCLr6ktCfBBCchfvpBBoE8Iv6DQ@googlegroups.com Tue Jan 25 04:31:40 2011 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Phi3c-00025Y-Gc; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 04:31:39 -0800 Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19sf4389366gxk.16 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 04:31:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject :message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+XUnEJs8vyx28vkIxUWMijAhb/lxOsjtiLzVxXzsi4w=; b=EU1mLmyvqbxyOL5yuWsvRZ0cVvZtHy3gox2srfwrEOkKFoSP3Ai1j7tAOJptGLEo1S XsK4wYInHafgggeuE4w1qasVNNyf72hBlYPPvukHLutk0JLLG7JuGyzGPS0KXAhIlX67 TLz9AEXLKIV6I6ReQ5ibwPPpWbNynp6OIH0uU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; b=vHD6xPtUK+psGXP3nzvUASEwzl23Br7S5gmVHOfKy6ukM6bxD9j/t79wy9X9FLTPGY Vu0lDkeawwWlTRqPGm8L3zxACqXkjedXPFOXrENJn07bhW7Y1rg2rp2niIowvHbRvz12 22/TCbPSKHqVz4684O/4Dp2ddcX0tskx1RaxQ= Received: by 10.90.25.14 with SMTP id 14mr25519agy.8.1295958684284; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 04:31:24 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.200.3 with SMTP id eu3ls3239053ibb.1.p; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 04:31:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.170.199 with SMTP id g7mr540990icz.23.1295958683392; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 04:31:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.170.199 with SMTP id g7mr540989icz.23.1295958683379; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 04:31:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f177.google.com (mail-iw0-f177.google.com [209.85.214.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c4si1657931ict.3.2011.01.25.04.31.23 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 25 Jan 2011 04:31:23 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.214.177 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=209.85.214.177; Received: by iwn38 with SMTP id 38so7168762iwn.22 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 04:31:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.172.197 with SMTP id o5mr6543373icz.422.1295958682932; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 04:31:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net [68.35.167.179]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y8sm10751718ica.2.2011.01.25.04.31.20 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 25 Jan 2011 04:31:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 05:31:16 -0700 From: ".alyn.post." To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] zoi bug in camxes? Message-ID: <20110125123116.GA29678@alice.local> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: <20110124162504.GB27137@alice.local> <20110125010310.GA26224@digitalkingdom.org> <20110125035753.GA29282@alice.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.214.177 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 09:13:55AM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 12:57 AM, .alyn.post. > wrote: > >> > >> CLL: "The cmavo =93zoi=94 (of selma'o ZOI) is a quotation mark for quo= ting > >> non-Lojban text. Its syntax is =93zoi X. text .X=94, where X is a Lojb= an > >> word (called the delimiting word) which is separated from the quoted > >> text by pauses, and which is not found in the written text or spoken > >> phoneme stream." > > > > I always assumed that this description was describing (in a PEG > > grammar with an '=3D' operator I'm inventing for this purpose): > > > > zoi <- zoi-open=3Dany-lojban-word pause (!(pause? zoi-open) .)* pause z= oi-open > > > > Namely, that we read a X as any-lojban-word, store the value, then > > we read a *character at a time* until we find another X. =A0In this cas= e > > "quoted text" is a character stream, not itself broken into discrete > > words and therefor not subject to differentiation between gyrate and > > gyration. > > > > I believe this description makes the CLL consistent with itself. =A0It > > is the only way I make sense of the example given. =A0I'm not suggestin= g > > this is the behavior the PEG grammar should have, though I certainly > > wonder if this is what is being described in the text above. >=20 > No, that doesn't agree with the CLL requirement of a pause in front of > the second delimiter, because you are disallowing X even in places not > preceded by a pause. >=20 Right. zoi-quoted text that contains X not preceded by a pause is ungrammatical. The opening message in this thread was the relevent section of the CLL which describes exactly that situation as being so. There are two clauses there, the second being "and which is not found in the written text" The intention of the code above is that it does enforce a pause in front of the second delimiter (that is the 'pause' before the final 'zoi-open'), but that it also doesn't permit the literal string identified by zoi-open to appear in the intervening text (with our without a pause, with in order to succeed in matching the ending delimiter, without to detect the extra CLL requirement that it also not appear in the quoted text). To describe it another way: match any Lojban word, then match a pause, then try to match the same Lojban word you just matched, moving forward a character at a time until the match succeeds. Then, since you must, assert that you had a pause in front of the second delimiter. It's convoluted, but I think your statement that I'm disallowing X even in places not preceded by a pause is indeed a CLL requirement. Both by implication of the example given and because of the text I specifically quoted above.=20 I'm not suggesting this behavior is what we want, I still do believe it is what the CLL describes. -Alan --=20 .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.