From lojban+bncCLr6ktCfBBDIqv7pBBoEMU1baA@googlegroups.com Tue Jan 25 19:30:31 2011 Received: from mail-yi0-f61.google.com ([209.85.218.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Phw5T-0001Uc-PA; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:30:31 -0800 Received: by yia27 with SMTP id 27sf4936234yia.16 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:30:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject :message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; bh=DU7n+p+2xq+QVo1zBgn8dFFFeuBcu9kfJmU5xljdpIw=; b=LH+6eoBBA72bfx2yG9iju4HZF9Ls9sn1RldnsxuiteqDNYpNghdrnxmhfwttmBmfEb 8/+LPHWLNIX/3rO/A8/Sk/JJGIyOnOQPiRQ0x0+LeEGq6Da60M/9fdwWtRPmc31YTSxR NZeQzDoMmUjpWNNl3HiVXvLQTCdZlk5gIlDcc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; b=NND9LwuVwc4aq2VgjlJyrg43ZvJbY0Xd1j9ZImCE/Bp0CWjNulqaNGBaKxrLUlUgrF R3dmD1m6NOylXEBLjLCcxMLj6VSo9A+L8ZBhIWG6WegMy1zQZUJiB5nXjkRRph1Zv/BY 9EwEEXvMl8CtzswDVpZgmG7kpqJlZ1qQ0q+lY= Received: by 10.150.50.18 with SMTP id x18mr52602ybx.0.1296012616811; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:30:16 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.76.165 with SMTP id c37ls189638ibk.3.p; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:30:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.35.13 with SMTP id n13mr3255516ibd.9.1296012615759; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:30:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.35.13 with SMTP id n13mr3255514ibd.9.1296012615737; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:30:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f176.google.com (mail-iy0-f176.google.com [209.85.210.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id cu19si3627628ibb.1.2011.01.25.19.30.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:30:15 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.210.176 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=209.85.210.176; Received: by mail-iy0-f176.google.com with SMTP id 26so6395463iyb.35 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:30:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.213.132 with SMTP id gw4mr6203308icb.413.1296012615118; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:30:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net [68.35.167.179]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 8sm12483258iba.22.2011.01.25.19.30.11 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:30:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 20:30:08 -0700 From: ".alyn.post." To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] proposed grammar definition for ZOhOI Message-ID: <20110126033008.GA37422@alice.local> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: <20110125204806.GB35838@alice.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.210.176 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Good catch, thank you. The definition of spaces in the (my) grammar is: spaces <- ( comma* space-char )+ EOF? / EOF Which includes what I understand to be a pause. (comma and space, which includes punctuation like ? and !.) I've been experimenting with this part of the morphology, I believe camxes includes Y (hesitation) here, which is an interesting question: For ZOhOI, LAhOI, &c, anything that quotes a single word, is hesitation allowed between zo'oi and the quoted word? zo permits hesitation between between zo and the quoted word, but the quoted word is Loban. If we permit hesitation between ZOhOI and the quoting word, we don't allow ourselves to quote a foreign word that coincidentally is .y. In theory, we could use ZOI and delimit the word in this case, so it isn't a show-stopper. camxes actually doesn't permit this usage either (though it is grammatical, you wind up with a parse tree that is quoting nothing rather than quoting .y.), which is why I've been experimenting with Y handling. Interesting question, nevertheless. Accuracy versus consistency? What do you think? I also asked xalbo whether this this was valid usage: zo'oi "Where are your Keys?" And he opined no. -Alan On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 01:19:59PM +1100, Ross Ogilvie wrote: > From jbovlaste, zo'oi acts to "quote next non-Lojban word only; quotes a > single non-Lojban word delimited by pauses (in speech) or whitespace (in > writing)". > > It seems to say that the pauses are required. ie > ZOhOI-pre <- pre-clause ZOhOI spaces non-lojban-word spaces > > I don't know enough about the parsing of non-lojban-word to know if it > will make a difference > > mu'o mi'e ros > > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 7:48 AM, .alyn.post. > <[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote: > > In discussion with xalbo on #lojban, This is the proposed definition > for ZOhOI as expressed in PEG. The '...' productions are existing > rules in the grammar that surround the new definitions, which are > shown here. > > ZOhOI <- &cmavo ( z o h o i ) &post-word -> ZOhOI > > ZOhOI-clause <- ZOhOI-pre ZOhOI-post > -> ZOhOI-clause > ZOhOI-pre <- pre-clause ZOhOI `spaces? non-lojban-word `spaces? > ZOhOI-post <- post-clause > > CMAVO <- ... > / ZOhOI > / ... > > sumti-6 <- ... > / ZOhOI-clause free* > / ... > > known-cmavo-sa <- ... > / ZOhOI-pre > / ... > > ;; I'm not certain of the postfix to use here, this needs testing. > ;; It may be just 'ZOhOI' > ;; > known-cmavo-pre <- ... > / ZOhOI-pre > / ... > > There are a small number of issues surrounding the ZOhOI-pre clause, > and what exactly consitutes a non-lojban-word. All of this is > untested, I wrote this up as a proof of concept. I'm hoping this > can be a contribution to a definition of ZOhOI formal enough to > present to the BPFK. > > -Alan > -- > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to [2]lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [3]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > [4]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > References > > Visible links > 1. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org > 2. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com > 3. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com > 4. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en -- .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. 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