From lojban+bncCLr6ktCfBBCKhIHqBBoEPXyvMg@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 26 07:47:39 2011 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pi7ao-0001x5-FY; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:47:39 -0800 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1sf392472ywh.16 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:47:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject :message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; bh=s/DjjFEYGGF4QM+f/lR0OJALfdvU98GQBSsztahUGLI=; b=hzo2XZNWWyw0i8dpaH+nzRdLoVbKSo2RcWl3i42Fr9Tpo+gJAayc3xJxIyKyNXl5Ch K5LNoDZo16E+LWkO1Xv5QFRLFfkqcYc955urfdPacnQQIEEdr2SpQjXZkocXPZ7FJtvI xWTfnEHmX9MWAqa1JVTMJ3B6eixwhTcPh628E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; b=luJEeFmoxjKxYUUx3pe5qWMySKOu/KRIwR8+qs/h+AXBf9C6pFXnmt9SYRQX4kczqt 6qd6r1L16IGHz7AUVHlNka2EEjp3lvF9Xai9yQuYGYKkXK4hFiNK/fjiBXEch+86DdnA Jcj07nO2Dple6MdTnWpGNhTcvDBEimps3uvgg= Received: by 10.236.103.162 with SMTP id f22mr104210yhg.11.1296056842680; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:47:22 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.76.165 with SMTP id c37ls735625ibk.3.p; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:47:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.206.17 with SMTP id fs17mr3731922ibb.8.1296056841249; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:47:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.206.17 with SMTP id fs17mr3731920ibb.8.1296056840945; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:47:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f170.google.com (mail-iy0-f170.google.com [209.85.210.170]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m30si3758991ibu.2.2011.01.26.07.47.20 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:47:20 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.210.170 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=209.85.210.170; Received: by iym14 with SMTP id 14so468677iym.1 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:47:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.206.9 with SMTP id fs9mr8444506ibb.68.1296056840567; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:47:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net [68.35.167.179]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 8sm13011156iba.16.2011.01.26.07.47.18 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:47:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 08:47:15 -0700 From: ".alyn.post." To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] proposed grammar definition for ZOhOI Message-ID: <20110126154715.GA38507@alice.local> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: <20110125204806.GB35838@alice.local> <20110126033008.GA37422@alice.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.210.170 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 09:16:32AM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 12:30 AM, .alyn.post. > wrote: > > > > For ZOhOI, LAhOI, &c, anything that quotes a single word, is > > hesitation allowed between zo'oi and the quoted word? =A0zo permits > > hesitation between between zo and the quoted word, but the quoted > > word is Loban. =A0If we permit hesitation between ZOhOI and the > > quoting word, we don't allow ourselves to quote a foreign word that > > coincidentally is .y. >=20 > It seems to me that right before pronouncing a foreign word is a very > natural place for hesitation, since it's likely that you will need to > prepare to get it right, unless it happens to come from your native > language. >=20 I like that. > > In theory, we could use ZOI and delimit the word in this case, so it > > isn't a show-stopper. =A0camxes actually doesn't permit this usage > > either (though it is grammatical, you wind up with a parse tree that > > is quoting nothing rather than quoting .y.), which is why I've been > > experimenting with Y handling. >=20 > Yes, it's complicated. My personal definition is that ".y" is not a > Lojban word, and /y/ is not a fully proper Lojban phoneme, it's only a > buffer. >=20 I'm also playing with Y because I want to see it in the parse tree after a parse, I'm neutral toward this definition, and it is compatible with what I'm wanting to do with Y: great! > > I also asked xalbo whether this this was valid usage: > > > > =A0zo'oi "Where are your Keys?" > > > > And he opined no. >=20 > You could do: zo'oi Where_are_your_Keys? (presumably you won't pause > between words when pronouncing it). >=20 I'm glad that everyone I've shown that too doesn't think it looks right. It makes me hope we won't see it in usage. :-) -Alan --=20 .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.