From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhCvk4LqBBoEDW_pOA@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 26 12:53:17 2011 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PiCMc-0000Q3-0n; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:53:17 -0800 Received: by qwd6 with SMTP id 6sf3426068qwd.16 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:53:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=4ZUVQAoEUpjwrAfv0jFFc9e7CVPomhPH6p3nAC7M/Ag=; b=Vav8Yj8G/wmMbraB2hioY2RjQTMJxPgRfQxd3sxFtPoWM9GUp3yv6aNRs5XhgxWYIw 9aYevjPNLZuoXMAh/wicFNgXdtLhGhqffwZCAd6Xgf6o3/JErsCEiEDloDv+q8J1A0/p 0EdG59q+k0JiU94auweEVM+vDySg9vpvFSfDk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=VbDKjZaBi/aWkuh69D7QFh0v8p9G3OiBjF4Z3jYdJCaHyuVUc5yZi8+zod4CIhTnV2 o989Q1g9CKmCRUl4GxiB7K4q40IFx/bvLpQlLlv2xk5v3mdJNjyAgJsPFPlvu42uijOw MRtuoHk5T7SXPS0v9ccBshPXhAT2kKZrqdEFk= Received: by 10.229.28.198 with SMTP id n6mr131686qcc.37.1296075183044; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:53:03 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.75.218 with SMTP id z26ls299782qcj.3.p; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:53:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.234.12 with SMTP id ka12mr108526qcb.29.1296075182285; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:53:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.234.12 with SMTP id ka12mr108525qcb.29.1296075182257; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:53:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vw0-f53.google.com (mail-vw0-f53.google.com [209.85.212.53]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p18si1049264qcg.8.2011.01.26.12.53.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:53:01 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.53; Received: by vws8 with SMTP id 8so611995vws.26 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:53:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.189.6 with SMTP id dc6mr755214qcb.175.1296075180719; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:53:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.213.204 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:53:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <647953.32901.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:53:00 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] lo drata darlu From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 2:15 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > .ie .i no prenu cu kakne lo nu djuno lo balvi .iku'i ro prenu cu kakne lo= nu > smadi .i va'o lo nu da pulji gi'e de zerpre kei lakna fa lo nu da zmadu d= e > tu'a lo xamgu balvi (I'm sorry to be anti-xedbig philosophy here, but I can't make out what you are saying here. It's not grammatical, because gi'e must be followed by a bridi. Oh, never mind. I got it. You wanted "va'o lu nu ge da pulji gi de zerpre kei...") lakne se la'u li pi so'u .enai ku'i li pa >.i cumki fa lo nu mutce mutce xlali fa lo nu de mrobi'o > .iku'i ma'a roroi lakne jdice fi roda > .i lo nu na'e pensi jdice cu xlali .i pe'i lo nu lakne jdice ba lo nu pen= si > je tcini bo viska keikei cu traji lo ka vrude > .ita'o mi mutce srera .i ro selsku zo'u lo'ai virnu sa'ai vrude le'ai > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: >> >> lo se na'e curmi cu tolvri ca'e .i no prenu =A0ka'e djuno fi lo balvi .i >> la'acu'i do ji'a bazi morsi gi'e na mulgau lo danfu be tu'a lo kenra >> .i la'acu'i ba lo nu do mikce =A0fi lo kenra kei do snuti finti lo mutce >> vidru noi catra pa gigdo be lo prenu .i semu'inai bo do bilga lo nu >> cuxna tu'a do du'o lo brojda >> =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Luke Bergen >> wrote: >> > oh wow. =A0{nurxru} would have been an amazingly useful word when I wa= s >> > putting together earlier emails. =A0That's a handy one. =A0Also, thank= s >> > gejyspa, >> > not sure why I was thinking sev. >> > ta'onai mi na casnu tu'a lo se curmi .i mi casnu tu'a lo se virnu >> > .i mi jinvi lo du'u lo nu da seznurxru ki'unai lo nu de mrobi'o keikei >> > cu >> > virnu va'o lo nu lo nu seznurxru kei cu rinka tu'a lo zmadu xamgu >> > .isa'u da'i mi bazi facki lo micyske be fi la .cancer. .i mi tolvirnu = lo >> > nu >> > da'i nurxru lo drata mu'inai lo nu mi morsi .iki'ubo so'i prenu cu >> > mrobi'o >> > ki'u lo nu mi morsi je nurxru lo drata >> > >> > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Michael Turniansky >> > >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> ka'u ro remna =A0cu se =A0vamji lo cimni zi'o lo nu jmive .i seni'ibo= va'o >> >> da'i lo nu do bilga lo nu cuxna pa da lo nu do jmive kei ce lo nu lo >> >> drata cu jmive keikei do bilga lo cuxna tu'a do .i lo nu de catra di >> >> seva'u de cu se tolcru .iku'i lo nu de na'e nurxru di tezu'e lo nu de >> >> jmive kei kei cu se curmi >> >> >> >> (BTW, Luke, you're using "sev-" where I think you mean "sez/se'i") >> >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 2:00 PM, John E. Clifford >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> > Not to mention the whole question of whether the greatest good >> >> > --whatever >> >> > that means -- is an appropriate basis for ethical decisions. >> >> > >> >> > Sent from my iPad >> >> > On Jan 21, 2011, at 10:26, Luke Bergen wrot= e: >> >> > >> >> > .i'ecai >> >> > .iku'i so'i prenu cu krici lo du'u broda mintu lo selvirnu .i broda >> >> > cei >> >> > ko'a >> >> > zukte fi lo nu=A0jmive ja=A0gleki ja=A0xamgu lo drata kei=A0ki'unai= lo nu >> >> > zukte >> >> > cu >> >> > xlali ko'a >> >> > mi nelci lo selsku be do doi stevo >> >> > .i na virnu ro lo nu toldjuno zukte >> >> > Of course, that flies in the face of the classic act of heroism whe= re >> >> > a >> >> > guy >> >> > throws himself in front of a bus in order to shove a complete >> >> > stranger >> >> > out >> >> > of the way. =A0But, as per my earlier argument, it is kind of naive= to >> >> > assume >> >> > that you're life is worth less than that of a complete stranger. = =A0In >> >> > case my >> >> > lojban is, again, too funky for clear understanding: =A0many people >> >> > believe >> >> > that selflessness is synonymous with virtue. >> >> > In reality, it is sometimes the case that "the greatest good" happe= ns >> >> > to >> >> > coincide with a good outcome for "you". =A0To assume that that neve= r >> >> > happens >> >> > is naive. >> >> > On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:16 AM, MorphemeAddict >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Nothing done blindly is virtuous. >> >> >> >> >> >> stevo >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 6:56 PM, Luke Bergen >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> .u'u .i sa'u .i broda cei ko'a sevmrori'a va'ojemu'i lo nu lo nu >> >> >>> nei >> >> >>> kei >> >> >>> cu rinka lo nu lo drata cu jmive .i brode cei ko'a na'e pensi gi'= e >> >> >>> romoi >> >> >>> broda va'o lo nu cumki .i brodi cei ko'a pensi .ijebo va'o lo nu = lo >> >> >>> drata cu >> >> >>> zmadu ko'a lo ka vajni lo remna keikei ko'a broda lo drata .iku'i= bo >> >> >>> va'o lo >> >> >>> nu ko'a zmadu lo drata kei ko'a na broda .i zmadu fi lo ka virdu >> >> >>> kei >> >> >>> fi'a >> >> >>> brode fi'a brodi >> >> >>> >> >> >>> .u'ucai >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I think this is one of those times where my lojban is just not up >> >> >>> to >> >> >>> the >> >> >>> task of expressing such a complex concept.=A0 In english then:=A0= is it >> >> >>> more >> >> >>> virtuous to blindly sacrifice onesself in order to save another, = or >> >> >>> is >> >> >>> it >> >> >>> more virtuous to consider probabalistically which life is more >> >> >>> important to >> >> >>> hummanity and act accordingly? >> >> >>> >> >> >>> i.e. if bob is on the brink of a breakthrough cure for cancer, >> >> >>> should >> >> >>> he >> >> >>> be considered virtuous for sacrificing his life to save a homeles= s >> >> >>> guy >> >> >>> on >> >> >>> the street? >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On Jan 20, 2011 5:16 PM, "Jorge Llamb=EDas" >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> -- >> >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e >> >> >>> Groups >> >> >>> "lojban" group. >> >> >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >> >>> For more options, visit this group at >> >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> >> Groups >> >> >> "lojban" group. >> >> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> > Groups >> >> > "lojban" group. >> >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >> > For more options, visit this group at >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> > Groups >> >> > "lojban" group. >> >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >> > For more options, visit this group at >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups >> >> "lojban" group. >> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups >> > "lojban" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. 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