From lojban+bncCMqBsa7nERDL1YPqBBoE6xi64A@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 26 19:47:40 2011 Received: from mail-yi0-f61.google.com ([209.85.218.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PiIpc-0001QN-2v; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:47:40 -0800 Received: by yia27 with SMTP id 27sf775894yia.16 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:47:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=sXvXAFtU7W6uO6RSwh5VEJjVPVee4Eg4SCwhHd2EGrM=; b=SF/96KyLuvufYD2+NdrsCHje/0zBcgoFqE/yQJn6u0d2pYz1vApSiO0brbjRFMicT8 QXQhaLK8bRN1GyfdiDtSZxC6KmryxwzQWVtQ/AR4hc2LzcLa0cpxUFSVZa0r+kdev1jZ XH6Gt6JS2ZXqPQkdylBn6gXiJ3NiDvXK7URAo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=TR9gqCqfx+BFRrUIrctcMyZAbDfNtawknJnyelinbMiBwixesM1o7sKV/LTzcXLrxY kNIloRV+Xq/olQfMShmSeOTvbmKKE4Hb1dEtHi0qXqdnXy5rauV8Nyj3IWvooy0oAqEv X5yR2Ctgml9iZBLqMX7uA4auW0uAA2icGD8SM= Received: by 10.236.109.49 with SMTP id r37mr22686yhg.24.1296100043857; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:47:23 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.2.82 with SMTP id 18ls1321606ibi.2.p; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:47:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.11.193 with SMTP id u1mr121105ibu.7.1296100043063; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:47:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.11.193 with SMTP id u1mr121104ibu.7.1296100043028; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:47:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f172.google.com (mail-iw0-f172.google.com [209.85.214.172]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d9si3888508ibq.3.2011.01.26.19.47.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:47:22 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of oges007@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.172 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.172; Received: by iwn40 with SMTP id 40so1653431iwn.3 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:47:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.15.194 with SMTP id l2mr343851iba.34.1296100041859; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:47:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.153.199 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:47:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20110125204806.GB35838@alice.local> <20110126033008.GA37422@alice.local> <20110126035654.GB37422@alice.local> <20110126185729.GC38730@alice.local> <20110127023614.GE38730@alice.local> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 14:47:21 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] proposed grammar definition for ZOhOI From: Ross Ogilvie To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: oges007@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of oges007@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=oges007@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The problem is if you want to allow a decimal point (or other shorthands overloading the meaning of a symbol) then you will need to put it in the parsing rules to figure out whether a dot is a decimal point (only allowed in a string of PA for example) or a pause. Straight substitution would be in adequate to handle this. On Thursday, January 27, 2011, Alex Rozenshteyn wrot= e: > Regarding the response to the third point, couldn't you just have an exha= ustive list of the shorthand transformations (wouldn't you need one anyway)= and preprocess the text, transforming the shorthand to the words they repr= esent? > > I feel like the biggest problem is not that of parsing. > > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 9:36 PM, .alyn.post. wrote: > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 08:18:02PM -0500, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: >> =A0 =A0pe'i there should be 3 ways of writing lojban: >> > > After a brief brainstorm, I could support these three modes in my > parser should that be desireable. > >> =A0 =A0 1. Strict: the only characters allowed (barring alphabet shifts)= are >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0lojban characters. > > The PEG grammar currently allows digits and some punctuation. =A0I'd > need to add an immediate rule when these productions are matched to > reject those productions if strict mode was enable and forbidden > characters appear. > >> =A0 =A0 2. Visually mnemonic: characters such as quotation marks and par= entheses >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0etc. are allowed to make skimming the text easier; there = is no need to >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0standardize (although suggestions might be welcome) what = means what >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0because the characters will be ignored (treated as whites= pace) by the >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0parser, and so every spoken syllable will still need to b= e spelled >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0out. > > This is how the PEG grammar works now. =A0I believe my parser allows > more punctuation than camxes, which is a trivial fix should that be > a problem. > >> =A0 =A0 3. Visual shorthand: It will develop anyway, so it's best to sta= ndardize >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0it. e.g. {xu} can be *replaced* by a question mark, {to} = and {to'o} >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0might be *replaced* by left and right parentheses, etc. I= t would make >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0sense to speak of {xubu}, the grapheme representing the c= mavo {xu} >> > > This would require defining what this visual shorthand was and > modifying any rule affected. =A0It would also require not permitting > the defined shorthand punctuation to be whitespace. > > -Alan > -- > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. > > > > -- > =A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.