From lojban+bncCLr6ktCfBBDG4YPqBBoE1HOh0g@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 26 20:13:15 2011 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PiJEI-0001Jc-K9; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:13:15 -0800 Received: by yxn35 with SMTP id 35sf779564yxn.16 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:13:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject :message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; bh=GB3nOWgEafgNH8eng8qJ8iGYKLRE9p1joPz5M6JVJxg=; b=PD7XsjcvmO+3QrNzEhurk681Nr/tZbFqaRP04N1r4zURUCk9qAVk5f5tyjP3D4MVHG sStNj+lT4j44Cx0fcHRFCq+vWevQTssYg9w7GY5Pz7BKpPMLsc8uroOodF84eWwNhIHY rBW1NPNGbFCnm5PoezZDtMlpa72/r27nm1EsY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; b=IhhUg0KJtvpIO10AgPhKI004wqYIatm14J3O1GnImpDrDq8Ua5FeEs5bd5JaJIp4Ro 4EfTj37d+k+L+n5IWbZitQQ6nEJPhNuvp9hZ0mtS3Lofh1K1nwN1l0iMpYke0pAn8Acu WL45GwvEXcCIIjbqxS/k68FME1CjesKNWyAN4= Received: by 10.91.5.33 with SMTP id h33mr145688agi.36.1296101574409; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:12:54 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.100.239.3 with SMTP id m3ls263599anh.0.p; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:12:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.42.2 with SMTP id p2mr111377anp.13.1296101573056; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:12:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.42.2 with SMTP id p2mr111376anp.13.1296101573012; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:12:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gx0-f176.google.com (mail-gx0-f176.google.com [209.85.161.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c30si5957338anc.9.2011.01.26.20.12.52 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:12:52 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.161.176 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=209.85.161.176; Received: by gxk4 with SMTP id 4so475435gxk.35 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:12:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.58.9 with SMTP id g9mr2088701yba.123.1296101572708; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:12:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net [68.35.167.179]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v39sm753253yba.7.2011.01.26.20.12.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:12:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 21:12:47 -0700 From: ".alyn.post." To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] proposed grammar definition for ZOhOI Message-ID: <20110127041247.GF38730@alice.local> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: <20110125204806.GB35838@alice.local> <20110126033008.GA37422@alice.local> <20110126035654.GB37422@alice.local> <20110126185729.GC38730@alice.local> <20110127023614.GE38730@alice.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.161.176 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Around here I call "transforming the shorthand to the words they represent" parsing. In other places it is called having a hammer, you take your pick. ;-) -Alan On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 10:18:52PM -0500, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: > Regarding the response to the third point, couldn't you just have an > exhaustive list of the shorthand transformations (wouldn't you need one > anyway) and preprocess the text, transforming the shorthand to the words > they represent? > > I feel like the biggest problem is not that of parsing. > > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 9:36 PM, .alyn.post. > <[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 08:18:02PM -0500, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: > > pe'i there should be 3 ways of writing lojban: > > > > After a brief brainstorm, I could support these three modes in my > parser should that be desireable. > > > 1. Strict: the only characters allowed (barring alphabet shifts) are > > lojban characters. > > The PEG grammar currently allows digits and some punctuation. I'd > need to add an immediate rule when these productions are matched to > reject those productions if strict mode was enable and forbidden > characters appear. > > > 2. Visually mnemonic: characters such as quotation marks and > parentheses > > etc. are allowed to make skimming the text easier; there is no need to > > standardize (although suggestions might be welcome) what means what > > because the characters will be ignored (treated as whitespace) by the > > parser, and so every spoken syllable will still need to be spelled > > out. > > This is how the PEG grammar works now. I believe my parser allows > more punctuation than camxes, which is a trivial fix should that be > a problem. > > > 3. Visual shorthand: It will develop anyway, so it's best to > standardize > > it. e.g. {xu} can be *replaced* by a question mark, {to} and {to'o} > > might be *replaced* by left and right parentheses, etc. It would make > > sense to speak of {xubu}, the grapheme representing the cmavo {xu} > > > > This would require defining what this visual shorthand was and > modifying any rule affected. It would also require not permitting > the defined shorthand punctuation to be whitespace. > -Alan > -- > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to [2]lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [3]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > [4]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- > Alex R > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > References > > Visible links > 1. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org > 2. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com > 3. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com > 4. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en -- .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.