From lojban+bncCOib25n_BhD7m4TqBBoETCHemw@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 26 22:17:47 2011 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PiLAt-0001XB-Ik; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:17:47 -0800 Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19sf979600gxk.16 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:17:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=5i3cHaNg3rjjGDtDpFksj45QjyN1D9946fJw6p6U0f8=; b=EsFiBXUlsdH5OyBLkxFf6OyOG/rGlIT33NazH4qFMhK6+FvOZvJhcsLSN8lJEq0l8I Vbw1j5oeyONFIFhpH1HHeFLqDaCisQe3/rOCAT0V8FOhK+zzJv3xIOnjJoOL1kiyI/DO HI6bCzstN90FQARILU1Tzo/6qTLEQGBuycL9s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=yJttdMXqUh5WU2SPbr2mwpcEvJuDo3ZBDya+AWdZu+ifo3kSY09H2JFbkUKLyNvNYT uSEE91EYqVCQIHRPFfKt+LzrKaOPJ9EYcTgEweTLGxyPI9aIeNjxZ9MCduZX1tiM6XYK 8bq5ruhUuRrnE7OGPST4uZP2AI3IjSM1QebBc= Received: by 10.91.62.6 with SMTP id p6mr152740agk.20.1296109051276; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:17:31 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.57.97 with SMTP id b33ls1411119ibh.0.p; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:17:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.39.73 with SMTP id f9mr146483ibe.17.1296109050485; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:17:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.39.73 with SMTP id f9mr146482ibe.17.1296109050413; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:17:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d9si3914553ibq.7.2011.01.26.22.17.29 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:17:29 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.172 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.172; Received: by iyi42 with SMTP id 42so1217601iyi.3 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:17:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.179.5 with SMTP id bo5mr1653769icb.288.1296109049262; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:17:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.172.67 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:17:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201101270049.05479.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <20110125204806.GB35838@alice.local> <201101270049.05479.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 01:17:29 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] 3 ways of writing lojban was: proposed grammar definition for ZOhOI From: Alex Rozenshteyn To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba6e8f8078b415049acde778 --90e6ba6e8f8078b415049acde778 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It was simply the first example to come to mind. I also can't tell if you're being serious about your last paragraph, but I'= m guessing not. On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:49 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Wednesday 26 January 2011 22:47:21 Ross Ogilvie wrote: > > The problem is if you want to allow a decimal point (or other > > shorthands overloading the meaning of a symbol) then you will need to > > put it in the parsing rules to figure out whether a dot is a decimal > > point (only allowed in a string of PA for example) or a pause. > > Worse than that: "1963-12-18" could be read as "pasoxaci pi'e pare pi'e > pabi" > or "pasoxaci vu'u pare vu'u pabi", depending on context. > > On Wednesday 26 January 2011 20:18:02 Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: > > pe'i there should be 3 ways of writing lojban: > > 3. Visual shorthand: It will develop anyway, so it's best to > standardize > > it. e.g. {xu} can be *replaced* by a question mark, {to} and {to'o} > > might be *replaced* by left and right parentheses, etc. It would make > > sense to speak of {xubu}, the grapheme representing the cmavo {xu} > > "xu" should not be replaced by a question mark, any more than Russian "= =D0=BB=D0=B8" > is. > And the question mark should be at the end of the sentence, not next to t= he > question word, unless you use an Armenian question mark. > > I also think that mode 3 should support abbreviations and symbols. Since > some > of them (such as "ku", which is equivalent to "kDa" as a unit symbol) loo= k > like Lojban words, I propose this rule: If a word contains the character = =D5=9F, > which was used in Armenian for the purpose, it's an abbreviation, and it > has > to be expanded before being passed to the parser. The expansion is > context-dependent; e.g. "mi benji lo Mg=D5=9F 2 Mg=D5=9F" expands to "mi = benji lo > megygra be li re lidgusyjinme". > > Pierre > -- > The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 Alex R --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --90e6ba6e8f8078b415049acde778 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It was simply the first example to come to mind.

I also can't te= ll if you're being serious about your last paragraph, but I'm guess= ing not.

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:49 AM= , Pierre Abbat <= phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
On Wednesday 26 J= anuary 2011 22:47:21 Ross Ogilvie wrote:
> The problem is if you want to allow a decimal point (or other
> shorthands overloading the meaning of a symbol) then you will need to<= br> > put it in the parsing rules to figure out whether a dot is a decimal > point (only allowed in a string of PA for example) or a pause.

Worse than that: "1963-12-18" could be read as "pasoxaci pi&= #39;e pare pi'e pabi"
or "pasoxaci vu'u pare vu'u pabi", depending on context.<= br>
On Wednesday 26 January 2011 20:18:02 Alex Rozenshteyn wrote:
> pe'i there should be 3 ways of writing lojban:
> =C2=A0 =C2=A03. Visual shorthand: It will develop anyway, so it's = best to standardize
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0it. =C2=A0e.g. {xu} can be *replaced* by a question mark,= {to} and {to'o}
> might be *replaced* by left and right parentheses, etc. =C2=A0It would= make
> sense to speak of {xubu}, the grapheme representing the cmavo {xu}

"xu" should not be replaced by a question mark, any more than Rus= sian "=D0=BB=D0=B8" is.
And the question mark should be at the end of the sentence, not next to the=
question word, unless you use an Armenian question mark.

I also think that mode 3 should support abbreviations and symbols. Since so= me
of them (such as "ku", which is equivalent to "kDa" as = a unit symbol) look
like Lojban words, I propose this rule: If a word contains the character = =D5=9F,
which was used in Armenian for the purpose, it's an abbreviation, and i= t has
to be expanded before being passed to the parser. The expansion is
context-dependent; e.g. "mi benji lo Mg=D5=9F 2 Mg=D5=9F" expands= to "mi benji lo
megygra be li re lidgusyjinme".

Pierre
--
The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.




--
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Alex R

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--90e6ba6e8f8078b415049acde778--