From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxCFxJPqBBoEPJp81A@googlegroups.com Sat Jan 29 19:59:17 2011 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PjORV-0002yl-Ix; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:59:17 -0800 Received: by qwd6 with SMTP id 6sf9900499qwd.16 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:59:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis :x-cloudmark-score:x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=ikTyLOvXauTzbqEut7bzsQykLUE1bnxzazi79CoC9V4=; b=HaEXHDtRYFrrZTbcJcBvI8p2NpAdLmhQggS4k7REaXagC8B2z5dFx1ZviLgQo2mk/O MQcACHdyCkK789GptQYaVZoxKgnuwU8SsBytXplx5PfHv6D/OTjAUrMa1KeAo76aMMn6 2h6pNkKoDVRidod8SH3zazmU6Msbnvp27YBpg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=XmYo8GQC5ywmDKClMwIdwwNqR8E06v6gwTwEErVRRk5n69ZLlH+t15UCF009iC7RyR QJ66YnT+0e5vGB4dorCspMaHPfywqVlFK7RuPB2SgyC0spdsv0TTWlbzS9gf6S09yfI5 kGQjDh0wCfPmwUyuV47Yn0Ng5e9Z4bwRDqi6M= Received: by 10.229.240.71 with SMTP id kz7mr274746qcb.33.1296359941293; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:59:01 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.75.218 with SMTP id z26ls1261308qcj.3.p; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:59:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.229.137 with SMTP id ji9mr294829qcb.21.1296359940733; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:59:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.229.137 with SMTP id ji9mr294828qcb.21.1296359940700; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:59:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id s6si4271666qco.13.2011.01.29.19.59.00; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:59:00 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.120 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.120; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=Inhw+Jdt7z1D3BivGPfn2aw54OvUEJw5lAn/booRZkE= c=1 sm=0 a=hg6Rh9B91EAA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=YiWWa3vLTrggcWotE24A:9 a=gjMoppHUZ7XLP-etiF21RaqqNmwA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:48336] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge04.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id B6/0F-13137-302E44D4; Sun, 30 Jan 2011 03:58:59 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id E46B21563D for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 22:58:58 -0500 (EST) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Random Zipfy question Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 22:58:55 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201101292258.56925.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.120 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Saturday 29 January 2011 22:08:03 Michael Turniansky wrote: > How come Spanish, Polish, Hebrew and lojban use only a single letter > for the concept "and", and English uses three? Why are we so > inefficient? Don't forget that Lojban has different words for "and" depending on what kind of grammatical phrase you're connecting. Then, besides "joi", there's "jo'u", which is more a natural-language "and" than "e" is, and "ku'a", as in "la treid. ku'a la traian. midju la carlyt." Spanish "y" is a variant of "e" (still used before words beginning with "i"), which is a shortening of Latin "et" (which is still spelt that way in French, though the "t" is silent). English "and" is from "anti", which is suspected to be an Indo-European inflected form of an obsolete noun "hents", meaning "face", and preserved as such only in some Anatolian language. Dutch shortens it to "en". Norse languages use "og/och", which is cognate to German "auch". Greek "kai" (and thus Esperanto "kaj") is suspected of being a borrowing from outside the family. Where the Polish and Hebrew words come from I don't know. Pierre -- lo ponse be lo mruli po'o cu ga'ezga roda lo ka dinko -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.