From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARDL7ZjqBBoEF53JxA@googlegroups.com Sun Jan 30 20:13:16 2011 Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pjl8Z-0007vA-Uc; Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:13:16 -0800 Received: by pzk9 with SMTP id 9sf1620139pzk.16 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:13:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=4HCAwRGGYgI0DvyzUV8OLjpEdwzFpjT0lSwavfHjs1g=; b=bpYqNjNCHj1Wviz/LE0yyQVCw4Uo5wxn9ksZmUKf1C1ATBl2QjT1D3O2US6K3CQaH2 /kNeYeUKRQkasPlORqBrZAZ5NPuGU7HX+xKsAl/yVZe9XkRQPsfgDm5GLjRXoiqrCUPP v1cUiBTBbTh4t027UmGrOeQrqK3sNGJpYR+ws= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=a9/0Sd/vLmdOu7eQDMG1e9qtdoSxxkF9mwot6x/ddczQKj2DBjuYLyDN7HssYek091 YNbLHkKEwGqiHmk2DIjNnbqDUyb1oT5QL26dpljohXIzSOwudFvpozuK4CQ9XGaawaG1 qmtAln6Y+9tmERTZ3pTATmGheWX/7SJ8FchCA= Received: by 10.142.178.6 with SMTP id a6mr357298wff.51.1296447179465; Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:12:59 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.2.41 with SMTP id 41ls7128613wfb.0.p; Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:12:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.172.3 with SMTP id u3mr1206423wfe.31.1296447178771; Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:12:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.172.3 with SMTP id u3mr1206422wfe.31.1296447178674; Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:12:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w1si11094841wfo.5.2011.01.30.20.12.57 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:12:57 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.54; Received: by pzk32 with SMTP id 32so994948pzk.41 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:12:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.214.16 with SMTP id m16mr5632470wfg.365.1296447177525; Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:12:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.68.21 with HTTP; Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:12:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 23:12:57 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] VAU CEI From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd2e0b87c88a9049b1ca1ec --000e0cd2e0b87c88a9049b1ca1ec Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 {cei} is sorta hard to use. You have to realize that you're going to hold basically your entire bridi (unless you override the sumti later) in a variable, and you have to do that right as you say the selbri, or the grammatical opportunity goes away. In some sense the way {cei} works now is like a forethought connective. I'm proposing that it have an afterthought counterpart; that is, that VAU CEI become grammatical, and that it do pretty much what you expect: ko'a broda ko'e ko'i vau cei brode == ko'a broda cei brode ko'e ko'i. To some extent you can work around this already, like: ko'a broda ko'e ko'i .i go'i cei broda .i ko'o broda ... But it does not allow you to do an equivalent of: .i lo nu ko'a broda ko'e ko'i vau cei brode cu brodi .i ko'o brode ... In principle I suppose this could be a cmavo unto itself, but I don't really see why. Any thoughts? mu'o mi'e .latros. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --000e0cd2e0b87c88a9049b1ca1ec Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable {cei} is sorta hard to use. You have to realize that you're going to ho= ld basically your entire bridi (unless you override the sumti later) in a v= ariable, and you have to do that right as you say the selbri, or the gramma= tical opportunity goes away. In some sense the way {cei} works now is like = a forethought connective. I'm proposing that it have an afterthought co= unterpart; that is, that VAU CEI become grammatical, and that it do pretty = much what you expect:
ko'a broda ko'e ko'i vau cei brode =3D=3D ko'a broda cei br= ode ko'e ko'i.

To some extent you can work around this alre= ady, like:
ko'a broda ko'e ko'i .i go'i cei broda .i ko&= #39;o broda ...

But it does not allow you to do an equivalent of:
.i lo nu ko'a = broda ko'e ko'i vau cei brode cu brodi .i ko'o brode ...
In principle I suppose this could be a cmavo unto itself, but I don't = really see why.

Any thoughts?

mu'o mi'e .latros.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--000e0cd2e0b87c88a9049b1ca1ec--