From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARDhppvqBBoEGFkowA@googlegroups.com Mon Jan 31 07:21:21 2011 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PjvZ7-0004Z4-MS; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 07:21:21 -0800 Received: by pvh1 with SMTP id 1sf1769010pvh.16 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 07:21:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ic0hX8prNWFpbEjfkgBeBPgxJAId8KmWcCjN0AkLI7A=; b=grIqmV1uTQNfKTIiyEmmhG+L5swDxaB7iwAFvCZ7S2s/mCMW09rO2Z9dWNURaoxTrt 1BlrVtalG++fugPP3B9X9Sf+ugfbx16T7LEMCEmHJGo8dzu04ChxzIUL7LFAQnVhVWVZ 1RQT+PQABx7H2ZvZ8MiKKQVN3WuKqWhnNYMaI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=mNXjuPVsUr1pnp9tSx7keumbrXZD50cDhmosoBlPJKN9PcuJYpOm0Ef9nPExfG8Vdo 4W0ta59i48+xK3CXTEavjYask8ykgNZSVLWXbBgDFsBzNYu3cx1Z9EoRD8yVZVhql6p/ vAh+bD4rZpoFpX8q18lXIlffQHCsGycvFHKUo= Received: by 10.142.172.13 with SMTP id u13mr378400wfe.33.1296487265913; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 07:21:05 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.249.41 with SMTP id w41ls7816716wfh.1.p; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 07:21:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.191.2 with SMTP id o2mr1413490wff.9.1296487265052; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 07:21:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.191.2 with SMTP id o2mr1413489wff.9.1296487265010; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 07:21:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-px0-f177.google.com (mail-px0-f177.google.com [209.85.212.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f13si23465354wfo.4.2011.01.31.07.21.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 31 Jan 2011 07:21:04 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.177; Received: by pxi7 with SMTP id 7so1796890pxi.22 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 07:21:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.134.2 with SMTP id h2mr6254890wfd.80.1296487263717; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 07:21:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.68.21 with HTTP; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 07:21:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 10:21:03 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] VAU CEI From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd22852cf497e049b25f684 --000e0cd22852cf497e049b25f684 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:50 PM, Ross Ogilvie wrote: > I would note that the second example you gave is already gramatical, but = it > assigns that particular nu construction to { brode }. > > Yes, which is not what I wanted to do. I wanted to store {[ko'a] broda [ko'e] [ko'i]} in {brode}, not {nu ko'a broda ko'e ko'i} in {brode}. This does demonstrate that this **breaks backwards compatibility (which I didn't expect) to some extent, since any NU BRIDI VAU CEI construct would now have an entirely different meaning. Are there any other constructs whose meaning this would change? 2011/1/31 Jorge Llamb=EDas > "cei" assigns a selbri, not a whole bridi. It is only a matter of > context that if you don't explicitely fill the arguments of the > assigned "broda", the obvious values will tend to be those used in the > bridi where you made the assignment. True, but it is useful to think about it the other way, because that is really what offers a lot of the compactness; simply storing a selbri and then refilling all its arguments doesn't save as much space unless you're using a massive lujvo or tanru. (By contrast, KOhA storage is useful for ambiguity resolution alone in addition to brevity, since {lo broda} needn't be the same thing from one sentence to the next.) > That could be added to the grammar, but what you are assigning to > brode is "broda" (assuming "broda" already has a value). > Which is what I wanted to do. mu'o mi'e .latros. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --000e0cd22852cf497e049b25f684 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:50 PM, Ross Ogilvie <= span dir=3D"ltr"><oges007@gmail.com= > wrote:
I would note that the second example you gave is already gramatical, but=20 it assigns that particular nu construction to { brode }.

Yes, which is not what I wanted to do. I wanted to store {[ko'a]= broda [ko'e] [ko'i]} in {brode}, not {nu ko'a broda ko'e k= o'i} in {brode}. This does demonstrate that this=A0breaks backwa= rds compatibility (which I didn't expect) to some extent, since any NU = BRIDI VAU CEI construct would now have an entirely different meaning. Are t= here any other constructs whose meaning this would change?=A0

2011/1/31 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.c= om>
"cei" assigns a selbri, not a whole bridi. It is only a mat= ter of
context that if you don't explicitely fill the arguments of the
assigned "broda", the obvious values will tend to be those used i= n the
bridi where you made the assignment.
True, but it is usefu= l to think about it the other way, because that is really what offers a lot= of the compactness; simply storing a selbri and then refilling all its arg= uments doesn't save as much space unless you're using a massive luj= vo or tanru. (By contrast, KOhA storage is useful for ambiguity resolution = alone in addition to brevity, since {lo broda} needn't be the same thin= g from one sentence to the next.)
=A0
That could be added to the grammar, but what you are assigning to
brode is "broda" (assuming "broda" already has a value)= .
Which is what I wanted to do.

mu'o mi= 9;e .latros.

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