From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhD7zpvqBBoE1w7HSw@googlegroups.com Mon Jan 31 08:47:10 2011 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pjwu7-0004E5-M9; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:47:10 -0800 Received: by vws1 with SMTP id 1sf3271870vws.16 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:46:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=QHW6ysT78e3PFwZHTvdNNRJ3Fg/YI4Pp3m7/7lTCQZE=; b=iof/ZO3WCAXZlV5H+gvixYMuctXLXlQJGsCvb2kyabSoKM8ac/0IPsJY7olWtZjvc5 7dYUkKyEzT8kauyW5/U1yOaXtZW+xnJyDZi5B6Y/HBcjIrpMcRUTsBez6VxFrwZCASpc hPRBS/Oqguc52KwE/jDyFi1guzm+B3Yk7CPUA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=C+1YocsqYcQY4tjg/x7qnaSoO9DJyuPM04H7WhwFmbw7GPrl0EP82QGr63W3MNc6jV MO41R3EuLc3mO9kHEPIslj/G9a8imBDs/reVsljDm4sW1ZxqLjxMcgNgP1YBc/0nii+Z seK3I045RKoref86Cjmtxajao4dVmp8MqfjCs= Received: by 10.220.199.77 with SMTP id er13mr362268vcb.32.1296492411766; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:46:51 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.109.137 with SMTP id j9ls648794vcp.0.p; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:46:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.202.130 with SMTP id fe2mr101176vcb.11.1296492410574; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:46:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.202.130 with SMTP id fe2mr101175vcb.11.1296492410525; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:46:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qy0-f177.google.com (mail-qy0-f177.google.com [209.85.216.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fj11si1842852vcb.8.2011.01.31.08.46.49 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:46:49 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.177; Received: by qyk27 with SMTP id 27so5662834qyk.8 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:46:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.91.72 with SMTP id l8mr5960655qcm.137.1296492409013; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:46:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.213.204 with HTTP; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:46:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201101292258.56925.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <201101292258.56925.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 11:46:48 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Random Zipfy question From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Saturday 29 January 2011 22:08:03 Michael Turniansky wrote: >> =9A How come Spanish, Polish, Hebrew and lojban use only a single letter >> for the concept "and", and English uses three? =9AWhy are we so >> inefficient? > > Don't forget that Lojban has different words for "and" depending on what = kind > of grammatical phrase you're connecting. Then, besides "joi", there's "jo= 'u", > which is more a natural-language "and" than "e" is, and "ku'a", as in "la > treid. ku'a la traian. midju la carlyt." > > Spanish "y" is a variant of "e" (still used before words beginning with "= i"), > which is a shortening of Latin "et" (which is still spelt that way in Fre= nch, > though the "t" is silent). English "and" is from "anti", which is suspect= ed > to be an Indo-European inflected form of an obsolete noun "hents", > meaning "face", and preserved as such only in some Anatolian language. Du= tch > shortens it to "en". Norse languages use "og/och", which is cognate to > German "auch". Greek "kai" (and thus Esperanto "kaj") is suspected of bei= ng a > borrowing from outside the family. Where the Polish and Hebrew words come > from I don't know. > > Pierre Well, in Hebrew, it's only a prefix, the letter vav, rather than free-standing word.. Since the word "vav" literally means a "hook" it wouldn't surprise too too much if it ultimately came from a figurative "hooking" of two words together. But I could be completely blowing smoke here.... --gejyspa P.S., Russian also uses a single letter, =C9, if I am not mistaken. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.