From lojban+bncCPGMg4mHHBDfx5PpBBoEw6XZBg@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 05 13:34:37 2011 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pab05-0005tt-OX; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 13:34:37 -0800 Received: by qwd6 with SMTP id 6sf53277311qwd.16 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 13:34:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ipynGuwJ6c5uZyhUzKWHBj3YetqVavmF5ATNZEdkWL4=; b=YUuS9kbpMn8NEgStnzoSCbZHDJpy1/5DebjV4n9eTjH26tncdOe5L28IMvEFzmMMnv TM395inl/ymOWfeOIL5wNd0yriYwicwL6BB9yRyYxmma0LwkR4OaR8OC3Tfl2ALQpEdx +Etofn6wSGf2UXTBZC8bfpOZp8HyF9+uZJQYQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=MVnqmTKzO5BGcAlTJ0v5vw0Ml5quJjdOLokuhWeE+cKQPwqasg8UAZCZTw8/nDOkUd bX++QOqYyT8hNC1V5VXAYIpqKOHuq5jNk3td6MK7AqOfmeLmUUCGJNdSIrDhN0Hd14Gm fKmeinZ6S+045Ydp7OVmsKLewJcGw5TH8xMPk= Received: by 10.229.17.21 with SMTP id q21mr3249371qca.38.1294263263121; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 13:34:23 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.80.196 with SMTP id u4ls6447153qck.0.p; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 13:34:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.73.81 with SMTP id p17mr2519163qcj.15.1294263262335; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 13:34:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.73.81 with SMTP id p17mr2519162qcj.15.1294263262183; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 13:34:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qw0-f50.google.com (mail-qw0-f50.google.com [209.85.216.50]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id t28si4365821qcs.4.2011.01.05.13.34.21; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 13:34:21 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ivo.doko@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.50; Received: by mail-qw0-f50.google.com with SMTP id 6so15902654qwd.9 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 13:34:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.29.5 with SMTP id o5mr22023209qac.164.1294263261096; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 13:34:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.176.71 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Jan 2011 13:34:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20110105165231.GK17534@digitalkingdom.org> References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <7c0687a1-deba-495a-9760-95d1d0649423@t8g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <20110105165231.GK17534@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:34:21 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) From: Ivo Doko To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: ivo.doko@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ivo.doko@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=ivo.doko@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cb1dcec6a7c0499202502 --0015175cb1dcec6a7c0499202502 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 5 January 2011 17:52, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > Saying that > it is very far from being complete and functioning is ridiculous, > and pretty insulting to a lot of people's hard work. > Gee, sorry. :-/ Also, I've realised I made a typo: I meant to say that Esperanto is "far from being completely regular and logical ", not that it's "far from being completely *ir*regular and logical", sorry if that confused anybody. As for the title/subject, I never said that lojban is *broken*, pardon me, I only said that it isn't finished, which is not something I made up - I constantly read people both newbies and oldies ranting on about how there's so much work yet to be done on lojban and how every now and then someone will take upon him-/herself to finish whatever is left unfinished and it will look like he/she will accomplish it but then he/she gives up and yadda yadda. To me that seems like lojban is, to put it as simple as possible, not finished. Esperanto, on the other hand, is. Were you trying to say that Esperanto isn't finished either? It may not be as "fully defined" as lojban is, but that doesn't really say much. Esperanto never aimed to be what lojban aims to be - a completely logical and fully unambiguously defined language. Instead, Esperanto aimed to be a language which is as unambiguous and as regular as it can be while still operating like a naturally-evolved language as much as possible. In order for a language to be like that, it doesn't have to be as fully defined as lojban does in order to be finished, which is the reason why Esperanto is a finished language while lojban is not. Even though lojban is better defined than Esperanto, it's not as fully defined as it should be in order for it to be finished, because the current level of its well-definiteness is not good enough for what lojban aims to be. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0015175cb1dcec6a7c0499202502 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 5 January 2011 17:52, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@dig= italkingdom.org> wrote:
Saying that
it is very far from being complete and functioning is ridiculous,
and pretty insulting to a lot of people's hard work.

Gee, sorry. :-/

Also, I've realise= d I made a typo: I meant to say that Esperanto is "far from being comp= letely regular and logical
", not that it's "far from being completely *ir*regular= and logical", sorry if that confused anybody.

As for the title= /subject, I never said that lojban is *broken*, pardon me, I only said that= it isn't finished, which is not something I made up - I constantly rea= d people both newbies and oldies ranting on about how there's so much w= ork yet to be done on lojban and how every now and then someone will take u= pon him-/herself to finish whatever is left unfinished and it will look lik= e he/she will accomplish it but then he/she gives up and yadda yadda. To me= that seems like lojban is, to put it as simple as possible, not finished. = Esperanto, on the other hand, is. Were you trying to say that Esperanto isn= 't finished either? It may not be as "fully defined" as lojba= n is, but that doesn't really say much. Esperanto never aimed to be wha= t lojban aims to be - a completely logical and fully unambiguously defined = language. Instead, Esperanto aimed to be a language which is as unambiguous= and as regular as it can be while still operating like a naturally-evolved= language as much as possible. In order for a language to be like that, it = doesn't have to be as fully defined as lojban does in order to be finis= hed, which is the reason why Esperanto is a finished language while lojban = is not. Even though lojban is better defined than Esperanto, it's not a= s fully defined as it should be in order for it to be finished, because the= current level of its well-definiteness is not good enough for what lojban = aims to be.

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