From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhCLr5TpBBoE6o1SQg@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 05 17:15:09 2011 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PaeRT-0008Lr-1F; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:15:09 -0800 Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19sf15014094gxk.16 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:14:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=O71OqE8tZUgd6cN40iyppI9nrNXb6Bb44c9W6yZ6suM=; b=u/P9w3GdK1oeNpa7Dqer+Uylce6y2hDZ/3H103irBR/+eu/kJNVqr5GBUA7VxUwzt6 0t/a/DIWhdxDaUoCt1+I2jV+Rv3neHrttMPC4oryYom9cFV+50IRrGYReB9KoF/A4V48 m34jLBbSJXPasFRNoYQ9o8SL6LEbRLjDmTobw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=sGMNDqNMT2dY/EwW71BOkLznKoPxbup3YPuAOqS1CzmysaTAgpGStqUv516Atl/cdg 9BmEzxVwJWgYTwc10Dc233CfCGetp2ZGKf+y+oCtV4NtOJstH9rwL3tWqj2qzquED97Q MjyQS9HLiAwWcNVici04TdOxRLG2jGmmzfiZk= Received: by 10.150.167.3 with SMTP id p3mr1660079ybe.17.1294276491603; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:14:51 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.78.146 with SMTP id l18ls2044402ibk.1.p; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:14:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.14.67 with SMTP id f3mr8242695iba.15.1294276490927; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:14:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.14.67 with SMTP id f3mr8242694iba.15.1294276490895; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:14:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f175.google.com (mail-iy0-f175.google.com [209.85.210.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id d9si5305969ibq.3.2011.01.05.17.14.49; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:14:49 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.175; Received: by mail-iy0-f175.google.com with SMTP id 18so15169854iyj.6 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:14:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.11.77 with SMTP id s13mr7793670ibs.18.1294276489729; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:14:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.140 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Jan 2011 17:14:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <7c0687a1-deba-495a-9760-95d1d0649423@t8g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <20110105165231.GK17534@digitalkingdom.org> <20110105220532.GN17534@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 18:14:49 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221538fcb2695ac00499233ad6 --00221538fcb2695ac00499233ad6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 5:40 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > actually I read it the same way. > > Esperanto is X, Y, and Z. lojban is far from being [that] at the moment. > = > lojban is far from X, Y, AND Z. > = > lojban is far from X AND lojban is far from Y AND lojban is far from Z. > > If that's not what you meant to communicate maybe you should try saying it > in lojban next time ;) > Yes, we Lojbanists do tend to think lojbanically about logic - thata's actually why I titled my recent poll-thread "taxonomic .a descriptive" instead of "taxonomic or descriptive", because English "or" is equivalent to {.onai}. > On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Ivo Doko wrote: > >> On 5 January 2011 23:05, Robin Lee Powell wrote: >> >>> > As for the title/subject, I never said that lojban is *broken*, >>> pardon me, I >>> > only said that it isn't finished, >>> >>> You did, actually: >>> >>> it's a fully defined, complete and functioning language, which >>> lojban is very far from being at the moment >>> >>> "far from functioning" is very different from "incomplete". >> >> >> You have misquoted me. My words were, as you quoted them correctly the >> first time: >> >> "[Esperanto is] a fully defined, complete and functioning language, which >> lojban is very far from being at the moment." >> >> So what I *have* said about lojban, is that it's "far from being a fully >> defined, complete and functioning language", not just that it's "far from >> functioning". >> >> >> I have to say that I'm disappointed and surprised at the same time at the >> irony of having my words so terribly misinterpreted and misunderstood by a >> lojban enthusiast. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --00221538fcb2695ac00499233ad6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 5:40 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmai= l.com> wrote:
actually I read it the same way.

Esperanto is X, Y, and = Z. =A0lojban is far from being [that] at the moment.
=3D
lojban is far from X, Y, AND Z.
=3D
lojban is far fro= m X AND lojban is far from Y AND lojban is far from Z.

If that's not what you meant to communicate maybe y= ou should try saying it in lojban next time ;)

Y= es, we Lojbanists do tend to think lojbanically about logic - thata's a= ctually why I titled my recent poll-thread "taxonomic .a descriptive&q= uot; instead of "taxonomic or descriptive", because English "= ;or" is equivalent to {.onai}.
=A0
On Wed, Jan 5, 20= 11 at 6:11 PM, Ivo Doko <ivo.doko@gmail.com> wrote:
On 5 January 2011 23:05, Robin Lee Powell <rlpo= well@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> As for the title/subject, I never said that lojban is *brok= en*, pardon me, I
> only said that it isn't finished,

You did, actually:

=A0it's a fully defined, complete and functioning language, which
=A0lojban is very far from being at the moment

"far from functioning" is very different from "incomplete&qu= ot;.

You have misquoted me. My words were, as y= ou quoted them correctly the first time:

"[Esperanto is] a full= y defined, complete and functioning language, which
=A0lojban is very far from being at the moment."

So what I *ha= ve* said about lojban, is that it's "far from being a fully define= d, complete and functioning language", not just that it's "fa= r from functioning".


I have to say that I'm disappointed and surprised at the same t= ime at the irony of having my words so terribly misinterpreted and misunder= stood by a lojban enthusiast.

lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be = denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I= am your father. :D )

--
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