From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhCjvJTpBBoEDEck5A@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 05 17:43:14 2011 Received: from mail-yi0-f61.google.com ([209.85.218.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Paesg-0007t3-64; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:43:14 -0800 Received: by yia27 with SMTP id 27sf9746715yia.16 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:43:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=6XH/2C+s46qDfjSuahiZa3LI5Fxtkv8+Hwuv6JebUgY=; b=PT5KwEP0YxtDm0M0qd5CMRZkTwtYZzAqX0LBUbIcGP5oloh2OfYtAQq1yEa3IchNTs PJ+awKowVk3BZH5Ka2vUaRZSfHvQl7ioD8kn1gfI2SDfzzWo7a9DGbEVL2+MUYEMGOQa hZLaV1HNqiyeEiJQ6Tmn2JsMx6LVuKOAL/v5U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=s34AHmoOEo67R8asxBBisM4BcYtifJqaUpPMMjKupONIXmmhYCO4ZuRPGJy6SAVOG7 5fbgyeZH1A0yz8/O97xl3OMglVou4y+HLxBQX2irZ8++uuA174pS79GGrfcg9KKYuJl+ Jw73Yq/2yzllswez2ULxAnef1HCGBu1ODb530= Received: by 10.147.34.16 with SMTP id m16mr1651272yaj.21.1294278179979; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:42:59 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.76.225 with SMTP id d33ls12851275ibk.2.p; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:42:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.178.68 with SMTP id bl4mr1875811icb.38.1294278178996; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:42:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.178.68 with SMTP id bl4mr1875810icb.38.1294278178906; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:42:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f176.google.com (mail-iy0-f176.google.com [209.85.210.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id c4si1859613ict.0.2011.01.05.17.42.57; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.176; Received: by iyb26 with SMTP id 26so17194119iyb.35 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:42:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.35.68 with SMTP id o4mr7671355ibd.118.1294278177198; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.140 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Jan 2011 17:42:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <7c0687a1-deba-495a-9760-95d1d0649423@t8g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <20110105165231.GK17534@digitalkingdom.org> <20110105220532.GN17534@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 18:42:57 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555145afe14620499239efa --00032555145afe14620499239efa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Ivo Doko wrote: > On 6 January 2011 01:40, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> actually I read it the same way. >> >> Esperanto is X, Y, and Z. lojban is far from being [that] at the moment= . >> =3D >> lojban is far from X, Y, AND Z. >> =3D >> lojban is far from X AND lojban is far from Y AND lojban is far from Z. >> >> If that's not what you meant to communicate maybe you should try saying = it >> in lojban next time ;) >> > > Wow, you guys need to learn your logic. Let's do it properly: > > A =3D "lojban is fully defined." > B =3D "lojban is complete." > C =3D "lojban is a functioning language." > > "lojban is not a fully defined, complete and functioning language" can be > written as: > .i la.lojban. na mulno smugau je mulno je tolpo'u bangu jboski parse > =C2=AC(A =E2=88=A7 B =E2=88=A7 C) > > which is equivalent to: > > =C2=ACA =E2=88=A8 =C2=ACB =E2=88=A8 =C2=ACC > > which is: > > "lojban is not fully defined, or lojban is not complete, or lojban is not= a > functioning language." > .i la.lojban. na mulno smugau gi'a na mulno gi'a na tolpo'u bangu jboski parse Like I said, we tend to think Lojbanically about logic. Notice how the two sentences, translated into Lojban, mean entirely different things. --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu d= o zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --00032555145afe14620499239efa Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Ivo Doko <ivo.doko@gmail.com= > wrote:
On 6 January 2011 01:40, Luke = Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
actually I read it the same way.

Esperanto is X, Y, and = Z. =C2=A0lojban is far from being [that] at the moment.
=3D
=
lojban is far from X, Y, AND Z.
=3D
lojban is far = from X AND lojban is far from Y AND lojban is far from Z.

If that's not what you meant to communicate maybe y= ou should try saying it in lojban next time ;)

Wow, you guys need to learn your logic. Let's do it properly:

A =3D "lojban is fully defined."
B =3D "lojban is complet= e."
C =3D "lojban is a functioning language."

&quo= t;lojban is not a fully defined, complete and functioning language" ca= n be written as:

.i la.lojban. na mulno smugau je mulno je= tolpo'u bangu
j= boski parse
=C2=A0
=C2=AC(A =E2=88=A7 B =E2=88=A7 C)

which is equivalent to:

=C2= =ACA =E2=88=A8 =C2=ACB =E2=88=A8 =C2=ACC

which is:

"lojb= an is not fully defined, or lojban is not complete, or lojban is not a func= tioning language."

.i la.lojban. na mulno smugau gi'a na mulno gi'a na tolpo= 'u bangu
jboski parse

Like I said, we tend to think Lojbanically about logic. Notice how the = two sentences, translated into Lojban, mean entirely different things.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'= e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'= o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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