From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhC0zJTpBBoEq-oxpg@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 05 18:17:39 2011 Received: from mail-yi0-f61.google.com ([209.85.218.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PafPy-0000Xf-V1; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:17:39 -0800 Received: by yia27 with SMTP id 27sf9763227yia.16 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:17:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=p57b1MtssBPHfYeqA2gt9cEP7qwNE7kk6YkXwtjGs7k=; b=XolFe/B5B92QECRcCo7C4Nffwjd8Zuh5SrRKYrSwwXePZrDFeMDAMR9ASCC+VkCAlQ pV4MOvvxJ6VguOy6+PVht0ohi4ieF/Msgm/JCrDYsVsm0F7odAJbqyiydXTQl0iTo6Pp XUv7eARkBw5DbkLBxcpT4BaRjKysPBTDUPii0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=2tkdw5RQbKAYShwza3/KJK/m16STsNcwpsJEaL8H/TyoW8BaiY1n9Kex+FGZItSCq6 UCY/c9DkXY+WqROpcgGa/IzITEsV7nDlB0nSyKAmALj7NBmU6Ma1xJAENWEM01wEo1Ez cAbUTq3eqg+xCaeGgLFa4e6mnumKPc/rv5MEc= Received: by 10.151.136.2 with SMTP id o2mr1654070ybn.75.1294280244510; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:17:24 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.78.146 with SMTP id l18ls2077088ibk.1.p; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:17:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.35.13 with SMTP id n13mr3258729ibd.9.1294280243907; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:17:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.35.13 with SMTP id n13mr3258728ibd.9.1294280243873; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:17:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id cu19si5317889ibb.5.2011.01.05.18.17.22; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:17:22 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.182; Received: by iyb26 with SMTP id 26so15938638iyb.27 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:17:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.30.76 with SMTP id t12mr10385818ibc.193.1294280242720; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:17:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.140 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Jan 2011 18:17:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <7c0687a1-deba-495a-9760-95d1d0649423@t8g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <20110105165231.GK17534@digitalkingdom.org> <20110105220532.GN17534@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 19:17:22 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255746ce1b72a70499241aa6 --0003255746ce1b72a70499241aa6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Ivo Doko wrote: > On 6 January 2011 03:02, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> Wrong on both counts. >> >> Where: >> >> A = "lojban is fully defined." >> B = "lojban is complete." >> C = "lojban is a functioning language." >> >> "lojban is not a fully defined, complete and functioning language" = >> "lojban is not A, B, and C." = "lojban is not (A, B, and C)." = {.i >> la.lojban. na mulno smugau je mulno je tolpo'u bangu} >> >> "lojban is not fully defined, or lojban is not complete, or lojban is not >> a functioning language." = "lojban is (not A) or (not B) or (not C)." = {.i >> la.lojban. na mulno smugau gi'a na mulno gi'a na tolpo'u bangu} >> > > If A = "lojban is fully defined." then "lojban is not A" means "lojban is > not "lojban is fully defined."." Decide what A, B and C mean. > > In any case, this is what I meant: > "It is not true that lojban is fully defined and that lojban is complete > and that lojban is a functioning language." > > That *must* be equivalent to: > > "lojban is not fully defined, or lojban is not complete, or lojban is not a > functioning language." > I think it does, but I am not proficient enough to translate it, so we're stuck on assuming. Regardless, what you meant is not what you said. Something that is easy to do in English, but rather difficult in Lojban. Waiter: Do you want cream of sugar in your coffee? Lojbanist: Yes. -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0003255746ce1b72a70499241aa6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Ivo Doko <ivo.doko@gmail.com= > wrote:
On 6 January 2011 03:02, Jonat= han Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrong on both counts.

Where:
A =3D "lojban is fully defined."
B =3D "lojban is comple= te."
C =3D "lojban is a functioning language."

"lojban is not a fully defined, complete and functioning lan= guage" =3D "lojban is not A, B, and C." =3D "lojban is = not (A, B, and C)." =3D {.i la.lojban. na mulno smugau je mulno je tol= po'u bangu}

"lojban is not fully defined, or lojban is not complete, or lojban= is not a functioning language." =3D "lojban is (not A) or (not B= ) or (not C)." =3D {.i la.lojban. na mulno smugau gi'a na mulno gi= 'a na tolpo'u bangu}

If A =3D "lojban is fully defined.&= quot; then "lojban is not A" means "lojban is not "lojb= an is fully defined."." Decide what A, B and C mean.

In an= y case, this is what I meant:
"It is not true that lojban is fully defined and that lojban is comple= te and that lojban is a functioning language."

That *must* be e= quivalent to:

"lojban is not fully defined, or lo= jban is not complete, or lojban is not a functioning language."

I think it does, but I am not proficient enoug= h to translate it, so we're stuck on assuming.

Regardless, what = you meant is not what you said. Something that is easy to do in English, bu= t rather difficult in Lojban.

Waiter: Do you want cream of sugar in your coffee?

Lojbanist: Ye= s.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cm= ima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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