From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhDUzJTpBBoEhYR8kw@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 05 18:18:13 2011 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PafQW-0000Yz-6T; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:18:12 -0800 Received: by yxn35 with SMTP id 35sf15046849yxn.16 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:18:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=2+9faPEZvCN2ocd6oZ+aSGLdnYWZp5fm1IXiAZvWtF8=; b=N7KynX4RW0XAmOMIutUeGBAZahh/Z9sEVQF/mPigjww5YbvBBNujsXF9NekCdlFFgT kX0M9agkZMbXR0DR35zC+EGjKdI+87EWOaT+ULtNRT0WPBx/wprypq/8idvq+XxDf/qR h+ALh/EAT9kS9xjFhFj5BQl2EkvNdMoUuG1KU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=AopNMwQDKtwNlH+GH9fOeeK7y4Skz61TRMs771ASj1TtxCZmXkPwj8zwET/4WHWQys PdgQLxGjS8JAejw9gptysoEfjjzimfnoLUhbpJ3kB8r1FKVCM3qXEX7AUzXrq3Rlli+w GVaag28WGwigIcVoT9+yYEi7xCvuhOPISE1uI= Received: by 10.151.3.2 with SMTP id f2mr1669749ybi.76.1294280276936; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:17:56 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.76.165 with SMTP id c37ls11508796ibk.3.p; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:17:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.20.68 with SMTP id e4mr8934792ibb.1.1294280276333; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:17:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.20.68 with SMTP id e4mr8934791ibb.1.1294280276175; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:17:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f180.google.com (mail-iy0-f180.google.com [209.85.210.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id m30si5318457ibu.2.2011.01.05.18.17.55; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:17:55 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.180; Received: by iyi12 with SMTP id 12so18422455iyi.25 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:17:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.17.141 with SMTP id s13mr7622456iba.168.1294280271618; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:17:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.140 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Jan 2011 18:17:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <7c0687a1-deba-495a-9760-95d1d0649423@t8g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <20110105165231.GK17534@digitalkingdom.org> <20110105220532.GN17534@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 19:17:51 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325574bc6d464e80499241bb6 --000325574bc6d464e80499241bb6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Ivo Doko wrote: > >> On 6 January 2011 03:02, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> >>> Wrong on both counts. >>> >>> Where: >>> >>> A = "lojban is fully defined." >>> B = "lojban is complete." >>> C = "lojban is a functioning language." >>> >>> "lojban is not a fully defined, complete and functioning language" = >>> "lojban is not A, B, and C." = "lojban is not (A, B, and C)." = {.i >>> la.lojban. na mulno smugau je mulno je tolpo'u bangu} >>> >>> "lojban is not fully defined, or lojban is not complete, or lojban is not >>> a functioning language." = "lojban is (not A) or (not B) or (not C)." = {.i >>> la.lojban. na mulno smugau gi'a na mulno gi'a na tolpo'u bangu} >>> >> >> If A = "lojban is fully defined." then "lojban is not A" means "lojban is >> not "lojban is fully defined."." Decide what A, B and C mean. >> >> In any case, this is what I meant: >> "It is not true that lojban is fully defined and that lojban is complete >> and that lojban is a functioning language." >> >> That *must* be equivalent to: >> >> "lojban is not fully defined, or lojban is not complete, or lojban is not >> a functioning language." >> > > I think it does, but I am not proficient enough to translate it, so we're > stuck on assuming. > > Regardless, what you meant is not what you said. Something that is easy to > do in English, but rather difficult in Lojban. > > Waiter: Do you want cream of sugar in your coffee? > Cream OR sugar, damn it. > > Lojbanist: Yes. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --000325574bc6d464e80499241bb6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Jonathan= Jones <eyeonus@g= mail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 7:11 PM= , Ivo Doko <ivo.doko@gmail.com> wrote:
On 6 January 2011 03:02, Jonathan Jones <e= yeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrong on both counts.

Where:
A =3D "lojban is fully defined."
B =3D "lojban is comple= te."
C =3D "lojban is a functioning language."

"lojban is not a fully defined, complete and functioning lan= guage" =3D "lojban is not A, B, and C." =3D "lojban is = not (A, B, and C)." =3D {.i la.lojban. na mulno smugau je mulno je tol= po'u bangu}

"lojban is not fully defined, or lojban is not complete, or lojban= is not a functioning language." =3D "lojban is (not A) or (not B= ) or (not C)." =3D {.i la.lojban. na mulno smugau gi'a na mulno gi= 'a na tolpo'u bangu}

If A =3D "lojban is fully defined.&= quot; then "lojban is not A" means "lojban is not "lojb= an is fully defined."." Decide what A, B and C mean.

In an= y case, this is what I meant:
"It is not true that lojban is fully defined and that lojban is comple= te and that lojban is a functioning language."

That *must* be e= quivalent to:

"lojban is not fully defined, or lojban is not c= omplete, or lojban is not a functioning language."

I think it does, but I am not proficient= enough to translate it, so we're stuck on assuming.

Regardless,= what you meant is not what you said. Something that is easy to do in Engli= sh, but rather difficult in Lojban.

Waiter: Do you want cream of sugar in your coffee?
Cream OR sugar, damn it.
=A0

Lojbanist: Yes.

--
mu'o= mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno = be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke= , I am your father. :D )

--
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