From lojban+bncCK30vq5WEM3jlOkEGgQgX8k4@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 05 19:07:06 2011 Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PagBr-0000la-4v; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:07:06 -0800 Received: by pzk9 with SMTP id 9sf4248549pzk.16 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:06:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:date:from:to:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=4fXxLeE1CM03EidGT50oN8PoR4Mc0YIdR1BYs+erXYk=; b=6DRG7dojEdE08IHSTGsuU7rODzyEdfGC/JZ0m8Lx2nNYyyW+yXs/3ct9JHAdciocT9 zkGgOWCBfJyM6ZIjawVPzxEDK/CD1mVyfYSPuflvBFXyljeu1gTOiSErhcSJFSCZhRYT fefiHh7tulCw4dyDpjXOv5it3EpJuoQY70t84= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=m78cH+TfSbkf3egJFa6aW10B/Gk+DwVDHOoZGcaRgVH6TiRLTGFVufE+TNN54ZSBug G3IB9QxuRgcL4frHdZozRtDyZWRScXLMETUKMz4gYP3Piagt7lZDR6GJ5TquG6j+lBnH 3ktBycC2zpdVsr+Sp2hCFPOQ36uuhe9ePHfr8= Received: by 10.142.62.31 with SMTP id k31mr37516wfa.9.1294283213328; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:06:53 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.2.41 with SMTP id 41ls25316812wfb.0.p; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:06:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.83.1 with SMTP id g1mr323312wfb.35.1294283212559; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:06:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.83.1 with SMTP id g1mr323311wfb.35.1294283212539; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:06:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org (digitalkingdom.org [173.13.139.234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p40si389992wfc.6.2011.01.05.19.06.52 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:06:52 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.234; Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PagBf-0000lW-FL for lojban@googlegroups.com; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:06:51 -0800 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 19:06:51 -0800 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: English is not predicate logic (was Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)) Message-ID: <20110106030651.GO17534@digitalkingdom.org> References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <7c0687a1-deba-495a-9760-95d1d0649423@t8g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <20110105165231.GK17534@digitalkingdom.org> <20110105220532.GN17534@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Jan 06, 2011 at 12:11:01AM +0100, Ivo Doko wrote: > On 5 January 2011 23:05, Robin Lee Powell > wrote: > > > > As for the title/subject, I never said that lojban is > > > *broken*, pardon me, I only said that it isn't finished, > > > > You did, actually: > > > > it's a fully defined, complete and functioning language, which > > lojban is very far from being at the moment > > > > "far from functioning" is very different from "incomplete". > > > You have misquoted me. That's a cut and paste, so I find that unlikely. > My words were, as you quoted them correctly the first time: > > "[Esperanto is] a fully defined, complete and functioning > language, which lojban is very far from being at the moment." > > So what I *have* said about lojban, is that it's "far from being a > fully defined, complete and functioning language", not just that > it's "far from functioning". In the dialect of English I speak, "A is far from being X, Y, and Z" means the same thing as "A is far from being X" and "A is far from being Y" and "A is far from being Z". If that's not what you meant, I apologize for responding to something other than what you intended. That really is the *only* meaning I can see from the English, though. Feel free to use Lojban next time. Just turned to the person next to me: "If I say, "that computer is far from pretty and functional and cheap", what have I just accused it of?". The response: "That it's ugly and broken and expensive." This is even more extreme, to me, when it's "A is X, Y, and Z, which B is far from being at the momment". I'm really surprised that a native English speaker would take that to mean something other than "B is not X" and "B is not Y" and "B is not Z". This is why we're hear, because English does that. > I have to say that I'm disappointed and surprised at the same time at the > irony of having my words so terribly misinterpreted and misunderstood by a > lojban enthusiast. Again, I'm sorry for responding to something other than what you said, but you have no basis for acting like your interpretation is *clearly* correct, as so far more people have disagreed than agreed. So, let's just move on, shall we. I'm tempted to ask what you *were* trying to say, if it wasn't that, but I don't actually *care*; I had a point to make about the generally pessimistic and perfectionist attitude in this community, and I've made it, and I'm pretty much done at this point. -Robin -- http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.