From lojban+bncCPieuJrRARDX55TpBBoEBSsWQQ@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 05 19:15:51 2011 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PagKJ-000114-1B; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:15:51 -0800 Received: by wwb34 with SMTP id 34sf17564145wwb.16 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:15:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LpXs0SGTNFhNr4BprIKWtkKe8qUmrHcRwKIPiTcgJzo=; b=xkkxTqslTi5tYOv8OjhSlQvYqoWJCADE4/hiM5Zgx9x6AiWV+Q71RsVZY+GHoQNF36 0MH7r5o9xaa0/b8sdTKSPVfUnAs3JEs8JNij9VGnGxt/y98AidlYy9fCZ3ziViqd1yz6 XxYSVZjxWxLbuJVoO7s6sLhP48cR0axM/07zc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=CFFmeLtF375QaQiAmRfMLJFKSImgxHFMyUA0vhB0veHZq2btL0jWkVv0Xqt0qLj0nF g+XJFnG7BIrq+aDTVXML58Yl0mLIf+5qAx2ttmGWhLy9aivtFsMAQS7vYh60JEmNecjI JJgiXWqRfGUmcejFqNyeXBxeuZ8CNVDHTUeEE= Received: by 10.216.179.145 with SMTP id h17mr34147wem.21.1294283735184; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:15:35 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.25.20 with SMTP id y20ls1057589eey.1.p; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:15:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.14.119.132 with SMTP id n4mr219937eeh.20.1294283733717; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:15:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.14.119.132 with SMTP id n4mr219936eeh.20.1294283733702; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:15:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ey0-f173.google.com (mail-ey0-f173.google.com [209.85.215.173]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z15si368084eeh.2.2011.01.05.19.15.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:15:32 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of purpleposeidon@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.173 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.173; Received: by eyg7 with SMTP id 7so4313419eyg.4 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:15:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.105.74 with SMTP id s10mr147300ebo.83.1294283732174; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:15:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.14.47.8 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Jan 2011 19:15:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 19:15:32 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Lojbanistan Hadron Collider (was Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)) From: purpleposeidon To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: purpleposeidon@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of purpleposeidon@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.173 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=purpleposeidon@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 1/5/11, Remo Dentato wrote: > I'm not against exploring how much {si} will make the universe collapse i= n a > black hole. Neither am I! =3D=3DBEGIN TL;DR=3D=3D It would likely take a few {si}'s to erase an event -- events are most likely in the form of something like {.i xyxi pa darxi xyxi re} (xy. refers to all particles, so xy.xiny. refers to the nth particle). In this case, the number of words it takes to refer to a particular particle depends on the total number of particles in the universe. Specifically, the formula is 2 + (interacting particles)*(particle reference word count) (Also possible is that, instead of using an index for all particles, there is a description, perhaps something like {le kantu be la xunre je cizra}. In this case, 7 words. There also might be something like the coordinates on the grid on WP:Standard_Model . In which case, we'd get {le kantu be li pa .e li re}, for 8. As a final of many possibilities, I offer that each particle type has a name, in which case 2 words. (Tho this brings up the "Toyata" problem; I do not recall what the answer for that is.)) Returning to the question of how many words it takes to refer to an index particle, let N be the number of atoms in the universe, which is, per WolframAlpha, 10^80 . WP:Chemical_Abundance tells me that the universe is about 3/4 hydrogen 1/4 helium. So, H =3D (3/4)N protons + (3/4)N electrons, and He =3D 2*(1/4)N protons + 2*(1/4)N neutrons + 2*(1/4)N electrons. WP:Proton, WP:Neutron, an WP:Standard_Model suggest to me that protons and neutrons each have 3 elementary particles, and an electron is 1 elementary particle. So, U =3D [(3/4)N*3 + (3/4)N*1] + [2*(1/4)N*3 + 2*(1/4)N*3 + 2*(1/4)N*1]. Zapping the Wand of Maximas, we conclude that there are P =3D 6.5*10^80 particles in the universe (the same order of magnitude as N). (This result is obviously wrong; I've neglected the photons, the rest of the elements, your mom, whether N includes other forms of matter, etc. Also, I fails at maths. Likely there is someone who actually knows what ri is doing, and has a provided a better answer on the Internet. This potential resource was carefully ignored for the lolz.) The particle index could potentially be written in other bases. Base 2 would take too long, base 5 is my pet fave, so of course would not be used. Dozenal is a number system for devil satan heathens, so God wouldn't use it. Lojban lacks convenient support for base 60, so is also unlikely to be used. Recursive calls to a successor function might be used, but that would be even worst than base 2. The best offense for what I'm pushing for is base 16. As we were made in His image, or something, the bases used are either 10, or 20. But, 20 suffers from the same problems as 60; no words for the numbers. So, particles would be indexed in base 10. Therefore, an index requires up to 81 words to speak of any arbitrary particle. Adding the "xyxi", we need 83 words to refer to a particle. Each event would involve 2 particles. (There may occasionally be events involving less.) Let us suppose that each particle interacts with 8 of its nearest neighbors each time step t_p =3D 10^-44s (WP:Planck_time). WP:Age_of_the_universe gives us 4.3*10^17 seconds as the age of the universe, so the universe is 4.3*10^61 ticks old. Then, (8 events/particle * P particles) =3D 8P events/tick =3D 8*P*4.3*10^61 events =3D 2.2*10^143 events have occurred Since The Beginning Of Time Itself. (Wrong because I don't know how many events per particle per second actually happen.) (total number of events) * (words in each event) =3D (2.2*10^143)*(2+3*(83)) =3D 5.5*10^145 =3D=3DEND TL;DR=3D=3D (If you didn't read all of that, I will eat your flesh.) Therefore, it takes 5.5*10^145 {si}'s to return to the beginning of the universe. =E2=88=8E Honestly, it'd be much easier to just use {su}. God is quite qualified to speak on the subject: http://jbotcan.org/jbo/arch/res/1093.html mu'omi'e.djeims. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.