From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRC09pTpBBoEzVlfaA@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 05 19:47:17 2011 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pagoi-0000aN-K5; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:47:17 -0800 Received: by wwb34 with SMTP id 34sf17573067wwb.16 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:47:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=tPWYL5oSOovcSOi340BkaotuJVdJ5tkC7O4GYANxg9w=; b=DOmIJOgBtTez6NEfQKTg2obpF6iZs1qpwLyEtJdmX+SbaoEJ8+0DPu7CZ+2OvGS6Mv tAwSOXFnAA5rfTuPAcssv7vtQNhwnZxCYef99RMVSzoWCIMI0lbQp7xCGsAYVVOiqO0z jNJ7rZLkeaO5v3HYtVVCiCoflJvjq8Z6+4zpo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=G8LRpdYTbmxwaIsKbj/3jsCkXqcp2SOKRw2t1msDMtey9FaiKbfgeSDmSG+Cgz2rOC J6xIvAjm3cl9DjCfhClN/eHLQ1ShCUsuapMKiVl7ASOQg+OhIYDpBexK6TkhyA2ZTvtn yCbM0YziS6dB7TdAyM1NCTETfEEphyqJVFNWQ= Received: by 10.216.169.19 with SMTP id m19mr3216830wel.7.1294285620750; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:47:00 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.24.73 with SMTP id w49ls1056289eew.4.p; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:46:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.14.127.15 with SMTP id c15mr182118eei.27.1294285619783; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:46:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.14.127.15 with SMTP id c15mr182117eei.27.1294285619762; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:46:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.117]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id t6si375104eeh.0.2011.01.05.19.46.58; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:46:58 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.117 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.117; Received: (qmail 95345 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jan 2011 03:45:56 -0000 Message-ID: <41641.81406.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: GMMjbz0VM1nmq4XXSb25qwssFM.Y2_6d7IRafxGbCFA67TS mP1aZL5STno7NVhO8LtrD_4MIQgfz5cMN7LX.okJjWULIL9hnmDHoG5lcRRG NnTexSOGp0uFi2S70iq1b_GjgVk9wzxIgwepxHLUsqh4jnCk.BVbMVUNTB0E yGjcvfQDTTdJ71Tq3yXUpYyy4WaB7PPxncUQ8uPu6QzmKkf10pR5qV6MKoRP YTXcSvw0nI.YtytFUgXTmMDapZ.Fe1Z_uHl9b9a8BINsP4RA8iRol2ICCjlH xpyyfzibQMTesvs5dn8XIK8JjhXIofoP4tD1fpduLNDOazjUBF18AYqw7unm IAT8jG4I4ES4Scpkf9osXkLMGyLR40DUBbdt7mIOW.pLgJTlW_O9M5dU.xQo oReMBqjgXxz2JWw-- Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:45:55 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <7c0687a1-deba-495a-9760-95d1d0649423@t8g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <20110105165231.GK17534@digitalkingdom.org> <20110105220532.GN17534@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 19:45:55 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.117 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1162336743-1294285555=:81406" --0-1162336743-1294285555=:81406 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 vel, sometimes, maybe, but, in Logic, it aut to be otherwise. ________________________________ From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, January 5, 2011 7:14:49 PM Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 5:40 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: actually I read it the same way. > > >Esperanto is X, Y, and Z. lojban is far from being [that] at the moment. >= >lojban is far from X, Y, AND Z. >= >lojban is far from X AND lojban is far from Y AND lojban is far from Z. > > >If that's not what you meant to communicate maybe you should try saying it in >lojban next time ;) Yes, we Lojbanists do tend to think lojbanically about logic - thata's actually why I titled my recent poll-thread "taxonomic .a descriptive" instead of "taxonomic or descriptive", because English "or" is equivalent to {.onai}. On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Ivo Doko wrote: > >On 5 January 2011 23:05, Robin Lee Powell wrote: >> >>> As for the title/subject, I never said that lojban is *broken*, pardon me, I >>>> only said that it isn't finished, >>> >>>You did, actually: >>> >>> >>> it's a fully defined, complete and functioning language, which >>> lojban is very far from being at the moment >>> >>>"far from functioning" is very different from "incomplete". >>You have misquoted me. My words were, as you quoted them correctly the first >>time: >> >>"[Esperanto is] a fully defined, complete and functioning language, which >> lojban is very far from being at the moment." >> >>So what I *have* said about lojban, is that it's "far from being a fully >>defined, complete and functioning language", not just that it's "far from >>functioning". >> >> >>I have to say that I'm disappointed and surprised at the same time at the irony >>of having my words so terribly misinterpreted and misunderstood by a lojban >>enthusiast. >> >> -- >>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>"lojban" group. >>To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>For more options, visit this group at >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > -- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"lojban" group. >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0-1162336743-1294285555=:81406 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
vel, sometimes, maybe, but, in Logic, it aut to be otherw= ise.


From: Jonathan Jone= s <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
S= ent: Wed, January 5, 2011 7:14:49 PM
Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying t= hat! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)
<= br>
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 5:40 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gma= il.com> wrote:
actually I read it the same way.

Esperanto is X, Y, and = Z.  lojban is far from being [that] at the moment.
=3D
=
lojban is far from X, Y, AND Z.
=3D
lojban is far = from X AND lojban is far from Y AND lojban is far from Z.

If that's not what you meant to communicate maybe you s= hould try saying it in lojban next time ;)

Yes, = we Lojbanists do tend to think lojbanically about logic - thata's actually = why I titled my recent poll-thread "taxonomic .a descriptive" instead of "t= axonomic or descriptive", because English "or" is equivalent to {.onai}.  
=
On Wed, Jan 5,= 2011 at 6:11 PM, Ivo Doko <ivo.doko@gmail.com> wrote:
On 5 January 2011 23:05, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digita= lkingdom.org> wrote:
> As for the title/subject, I never said that lojban is *brok= en*, pardon me, I
> only said that it isn't finished,

You did, actually:

 it's a fully defined, complete and functioning language, which
 lojban is very far from being at the moment

"far from functioning" is very different from "incomplete".

You have misquoted me. My words were, as you quoted them corre= ctly the first time:

"[Esperanto is] a fully defined, complete and f= unctioning language, which
 lojban is very far from being at the moment."

So what I *have= * said about lojban, is that it's "far from being a fully defined, complete= and functioning language", not just that it's "far from functioning".


I have to say that I'm disappointed and surprised at the same time = at the irony of having my words so terribly misinterpreted and misunderstoo= d by a lojban enthusiast.

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--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.= luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D = )

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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

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