From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxCsyMLqBBoEdPMSqA@googlegroups.com Mon Feb 07 18:02:38 2011 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PmcuX-0005Rj-7a; Mon, 07 Feb 2011 18:02:38 -0800 Received: by qwd6 with SMTP id 6sf15737953qwd.16 for ; Mon, 07 Feb 2011 18:02:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis :x-cloudmark-score:x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=OHLR/qOVB16IzzULnFKufZ2NezH5YQL6vL8xEMzgE10=; b=j5Dy69/695NkgYzBMwEwA3nxZpxi3C/BiCAka4YlBUnnBfAvyK8CicHHDEK3Ys6L8k oLBKKfBVCLakR74MrVDLKDLKzyu1ArahTMV6IW54vSzxQCMP+YMxBvCR5VnFBNO05ArY htvBBEN86A8q5+R5XZEA5oC2rpC9BUCtrbaEQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=ipo5owFAg4sgIiIVb3EMmoaCG/RWpGJuGa3Ypt4jWxYeLcemumZiEb31+ThSEB8PID V0RF45pjOEfiVtH5EZtqFBBCufJBBAXB4iKvlTsDy5TQIbNC8PR1tS5LUFrmp2YkuJRb z2XmAJN+4Qng4A1x1c2Uvo1Tk+x4tZNu3oTdU= Received: by 10.224.11.85 with SMTP id s21mr387681qas.42.1297130540653; Mon, 07 Feb 2011 18:02:20 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.184.8 with SMTP id ci8ls910593qab.7.p; Mon, 07 Feb 2011 18:02:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.54.81 with SMTP id p17mr1277644qag.19.1297130539713; Mon, 07 Feb 2011 18:02:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.54.81 with SMTP id p17mr1277643qag.19.1297130539701; Mon, 07 Feb 2011 18:02:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.123]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id o8si849407qcu.2.2011.02.07.18.02.18; Mon, 07 Feb 2011 18:02:19 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.123 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.123; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=Inhw+Jdt7z1D3BivGPfn2aw54OvUEJw5lAn/booRZkE= c=1 sm=0 a=hyqY5TlBaoQA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=DHoI-6-tkHeleJnht4QA:9 a=aFNZmie22L2oFOLKeb4A:7 a=OTYbSKXl1I0SBtI6YRwBr-GrVrEA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:47811] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge04.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id F5/71-13137-A24A05D4; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 02:02:18 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9703E1403B for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 21:02:17 -0500 (EST) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] zo .y.bu cmavo lo zo bu jonai zo by xu Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 21:02:14 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <20110207031019.GB63098@alice.local> <201102071304.45045.phma@phma.optus.nu> <20110207193031.GB64889@alice.local> In-Reply-To: <20110207193031.GB64889@alice.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201102072102.16004.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.123 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Monday 07 February 2011 14:30:32 .alyn.post. wrote: > I've exceed my Lojbanic fluency then. camxes considers |y| to be > whitespace, so hesitation is never seen by the grammar, it is > transformed into whitespace by the morphology. > > I believe this is almost always the correct decision, for hesitation > to preceed speech. It does make talking about hesitation a bit odd, > in that you can't directly quote someone hesitating: hesitation is > always something the speaker is *doing*. Ah. What you said means "A pause sound precedes a talker". I griced that the talker was the one who talks about Welsh articles in Lojban, couldn't make sense of that, and gave up. > If you made other points I didn't understand them, will you please > try again? "y", which is pronounced as in Lojban, is the definite article in both Welsh and Manx. (The article has other forms depending on the start of the next word and, in Manx, the case.) If we can't quote "y" with "zoi", then we can't talk about the Welsh article in Lojban, and "zoi" is broken. "mraigo" means "Welsh" and "gilvani" (variants: gailgvani, gailvani, gilgvani) means "Manx". That should be enough for you to figure out the others. Pierre -- Don't buy a French car in Holland. It may be a citroen. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.