From lojban+bncCLr6ktCfBBDP5cXqBBoEnI5-JQ@googlegroups.com Tue Feb 08 08:44:15 2011 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pmqfj-0003eZ-NM; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 08:44:15 -0800 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1sf4014163ywh.16 for ; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 08:44:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject :message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; bh=J/+A40X3p5ToV88+KA25JYPk0GcvPqkIPuZbdKhH7OQ=; b=sVJ8nXicnXeZ2/tKmk/mC8ocDa4f8uzPeM/N1jOgx4F37bEgrEt/5SpbYixCFzzRIc xaxgo0CcXRbbBRetNPBPJnrRqP/nEeVKC7NrW3E9E6mlz/+o5r0VWCx+0Zdg5zrPb03Z cxpRVaK0cT904iEo8LLpBQYyMzUZMa6+LEIk0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; b=WcTtuTPTLoWr9lKaVitmQEgXyvWkkxYSucqwsylPAeXmVxP+iPA78Q1u8P7LrcoCer f1JOC0sWk+L+ZN7LzMT7/1lWMibEbt2YmZU9x3H5Z0qIr0iZzRZtWUOFvsPu+es0FJB1 sCA31+DVcdUUj9xaXN2q/HouEnBqgJ6d7PgOI= Received: by 10.236.109.37 with SMTP id r25mr312186yhg.12.1297183439803; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 08:43:59 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.71.26 with SMTP id t26ls518817yba.1.p; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 08:43:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.217.10 with SMTP id p10mr76517ybg.28.1297183439215; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 08:43:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.217.10 with SMTP id p10mr76516ybg.28.1297183439188; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 08:43:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yx0-f176.google.com (mail-yx0-f176.google.com [209.85.213.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q2si431149ybe.0.2011.02.08.08.43.58 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 08 Feb 2011 08:43:58 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.213.176 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=209.85.213.176; Received: by mail-yx0-f176.google.com with SMTP id 8so2534427yxm.21 for ; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 08:43:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.33.8 with SMTP id g8mr2339322ang.180.1297183438529; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 08:43:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.10.243.253]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w6sm7271530anf.6.2011.02.08.08.43.55 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 08 Feb 2011 08:43:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 09:43:48 -0700 From: ".alyn.post." To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] zo .y.bu cmavo lo zo bu jonai zo by xu Message-ID: <20110208164348.GA69972@alice.local> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: <20110207031019.GB63098@alice.local> <201102071304.45045.phma@phma.optus.nu> <20110207193031.GB64889@alice.local> <201102072102.16004.phma@phma.optus.nu> Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201102072102.16004.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.213.176 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 09:02:14PM -0500, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Monday 07 February 2011 14:30:32 .alyn.post. wrote: > > I've exceed my Lojbanic fluency then. camxes considers |y| to be > > whitespace, so hesitation is never seen by the grammar, it is > > transformed into whitespace by the morphology. > > > > I believe this is almost always the correct decision, for hesitation > > to preceed speech. It does make talking about hesitation a bit odd, > > in that you can't directly quote someone hesitating: hesitation is > > always something the speaker is *doing*. > > Ah. What you said means "A pause sound precedes a talker". I griced that the > talker was the one who talks about Welsh articles in Lojban, couldn't make > sense of that, and gave up. > > > If you made other points I didn't understand them, will you please > > try again? > > "y", which is pronounced as in Lojban, is the definite article in both Welsh > and Manx. (The article has other forms depending on the start of the next > word and, in Manx, the case.) If we can't quote "y" with "zoi", then we can't > talk about the Welsh article in Lojban, and "zoi" is broken. > > "mraigo" means "Welsh" and "gilvani" (variants: gailgvani, gailvani, gilgvani) > means "Manx". That should be enough for you to figure out the others. > I agree that zoi is broken in this manner. I'm working on fixing it in the PEG grammar, but that backlog is pretty large right now. I'm not planning on having "zo .y." quote .y., I'm planning on doing something special just for ZOI. -Alan -- .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.