From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBDrqMbqBBoEHViWRw@googlegroups.com Tue Feb 08 11:07:39 2011 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PmsuV-0001aF-73; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:07:39 -0800 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1sf4131153ywh.16 for ; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:07:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=7CW0omRvxlFcpishadqqkUfsQWun9WCzXpvSxW6no+Y=; b=oE3+32reMaYvf/JDBfLJ36tWrtDqVtJcuqtQ2ub0FgZd3E3/S0sQ3YSYulkbipwQRh 3r1ZB0YcIqy8JKs2nYdWD6GtJiRQWwQ0HbqluruybLumlXcD8C5V3Rm5t8Qr1/C4eniO eIANni7CU/URId8wdhOWYcc+FAw+ra4UB3lSw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=xONFCb9FVJHzV3gLz153wlBn6BQX03sEQvnBluC1h0xRB/ZN0Q9SG9SYJBGfTb17Q3 lzNg0ZPkfDzy9HYjTQls1w2hetZGfuC4cBS7I/R4uStzP7eUwXbTsUquchOI2QooI6xm RzPr8gOp5X4O2PzwC9E/ZfOKMeG9ImYrGB5cA= Received: by 10.151.84.17 with SMTP id m17mr48266ybl.74.1297192043173; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:07:23 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.200.3 with SMTP id eu3ls1826837ibb.1.p; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:07:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.178.8 with SMTP id bk8mr122186icb.53.1297192042316; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:07:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.178.8 with SMTP id bk8mr122185icb.53.1297192042304; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:07:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f182.google.com (mail-iw0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c4si805454ict.7.2011.02.08.11.07.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:07:21 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.182; Received: by mail-iw0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 39so6195024iwn.41 for ; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:07:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.16.200 with SMTP id p8mr2684379iba.181.1297192040512; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:07:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.19 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:07:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:07:20 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Am I completely wrong about tanru? From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=002215046c7bc7bc7b049bca0e76 --002215046c7bc7bc7b049bca0e76 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I was under the same impression. But keep in mind, the first word in the tanru modifies the second word. So by extension, ko'a will have some attributes of the {broda} since {brode} is a {broda} type-of {brode}. hmm, that could be better said. If {lo mamta patfu} is a motherly kind of father, then in the bridi {ko'a mamta patfu} we are first and foremost saying that {ko'a} is a {patfu}. But we are also saying that ko'a is a {mamta} kind of {patfu}. So the nature of the tanru will always imply that x1 has some of the characteristics of each of the words in the selbri. But the places are ultimately those of the right-most word (unless you do "co" and such). A better example: {ko'a blanu zdani}. Yes, ko'a is a house, but since we are saying that it's a {blanu} type-of {zdani} it just so happens that {ko'a} could very well fill out the x1 of {blanu} as well. Which examples in particular were throwing you off? On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: > I was under the impression that {da broda brode} logically necessitates > that {da brode}. Am I wrong? > > Some of the examples in http://dag.github.com/cll/5/15/ seem to indicate > that this is not the case. Am I misunderstanding the purpose of the > section? > > -- > Alex R > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --002215046c7bc7bc7b049bca0e76 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was under the same impression. =A0But keep in mind, the first word in the= tanru modifies the second word. =A0So by extension, ko'a will have som= e attributes of the {broda} since {brode} is a {broda} type-of {brode}.
hmm, that could be better said. =A0If {lo mamta patfu} is a = motherly kind of father, then in the bridi {ko'a mamta patfu} we are fi= rst and foremost saying that {ko'a} is a {patfu}. =A0But we are also sa= ying that ko'a is a {mamta} kind of {patfu}. =A0So the nature of the ta= nru will always imply that x1 has some of the=A0characteristics=A0of each o= f the words in the selbri. =A0But the places are ultimately those of the ri= ght-most word (unless you do "co" and such).

A better example: =A0{ko'a blanu zdani}. =A0Yes, ko'= a is a house, but since we are saying that it's a {blanu} type-of {zdan= i} it just so happens that {ko'a} could very well fill out the x1 of {b= lanu} as well.

Which examples in particular were throwing you off?

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Alex = Rozenshteyn <r= pglover64@gmail.com> wrote:
I was under the impression that {da broda b= rode} logically necessitates that {da brode}.=A0 Am I wrong?

Some of= the examples in http://dag.github.com/cll/5/15/ seem to indicate that this is not t= he case.=A0 Am I misunderstanding the purpose of the section?

--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

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