From lojban+bncCM-P6d3GHBCgm6PqBBoEVxm1gQ@googlegroups.com Tue Feb 01 19:21:22 2011 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PkTHQ-0005yx-LB; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 19:21:22 -0800 Received: by wyb35 with SMTP id 35sf8085533wyb.16 for ; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 19:21:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:from:date :message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DhAWhOkCxhoAd4nQ92wRAvczMpBJbe1pBa0qEiQCZJY=; b=R5QDKUcqm1LC+Phi8G5x4fFGyNxNe1q+MU6+3Grh0RX7JU/k+r02LiJYl/vZKYVdzK PxdqISa3OU1etprxlaI497vWmj4JJs3BZDnX/kCMHJq/6tlhfHShZjck6Q2RWrAwbRxc corAJf4IiTHho9cGi2PN+5XphvaHwt75xZYhc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=CDZJTCCxtYiGQ9/XuizBBPS5KLXz8gXcxB5uMQnih7kVVoGjj/emcnTOxLE9mYR49i e8lAg0qGrY/6eCSXSY8eL2Vyawdh9h5RS5E9zeM1xUOSypYjcixi7NMJ0iTJTcBZruAc pHQywBj5ejmikwSalt1UQBTGQgQxhisnUVswc= Received: by 10.216.157.139 with SMTP id o11mr1663820wek.28.1296616864415; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 19:21:04 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.102.89 with SMTP id f25ls49596wbo.0.p; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 19:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.132.141 with SMTP id b13mr399232wbt.6.1296616862475; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 19:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.132.141 with SMTP id b13mr399231wbt.6.1296616862423; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 19:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ww0-f44.google.com (mail-ww0-f44.google.com [74.125.82.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f14si2991271wbu.5.2011.02.01.19.21.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 01 Feb 2011 19:21:01 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of leos.molas@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.44; Received: by wwa36 with SMTP id 36so8270621wwa.13 for ; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 19:21:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.150.129 with SMTP id z1mr7746876wej.113.1296616860780; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 19:21:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.245.9 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Feb 2011 19:20:30 -0800 (PST) From: Leo Molas Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 00:20:30 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Idea: Levels To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: leos.molas@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of leos.molas@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=leos.molas@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable coirodo I've been thinking for a long time this idea, and I wanted to write it down in order to discuss it (and not to forgive it). What if we stablish some: *Levels* (beginner, intermediate, expert...) I know, it's really obvious this was discussed before, but I think I have something larger in mind. (this is the obvious part) A level shall be a series of contents, or concepts of lojban grammar, along with a quantity of minimum vocabulary. There would be 3 or more levels (the more, the better), in ascending order of difficulty. (this may be not) A level shall be very well defined. With this I mean to enumerate the possible grammar structures that can be in a lojban text readable for a student of the level. The vocabulary for that level should be divided in the existing categories (gismu, cmavo, lujvo...), and establish a subset of those words. For (a toy) example, a beginner should know: - gismu, and the place structure. - how to say his name. And the subset of words: gismu =3D {klama, blanu, zdani} cmavo =3D {mi'e, i, coi} This way, it's easy to say whether a text would be readable for a beginner or not. It would be *so* easy, that a program could do that. So, we could make a program that classifies the entire lojban corpus. (this occurred to me when I was looking for a text to read, so I could practice a little, but I always had a difficult concept (actually, vocabulary is not a problem, since I could search in a dictionary)) The advantages of this: - Having a classified corpus would be beneficial for people writing a text= book. - Also for them, the levels should be a good place to start. - Homogenization. If many are attracted by this, and start writing (or modifying) many textbooks, the topics between books could be interchangeable for students. The enumeration of vocabulary for each level should be easy. For each group of words (gismu, cmavo, lujvo...), we could order them by frequency (I think I saw something like that with gismu), and establish limits there. The enumeration of grammar is the tricky one. If you like the idea, we should discuss the number of levels, and the contents of them. I think it could be easy for me, if someday this levels grow up and become usable, to modify some of the existing parsers into a classifier. If I remember something else, I'll post it. In the meantime, I'd like to know what you think about this. mu'o mi'e .leos. --=20 My Lojban journal: http://learninglojban.wordpress.com/ My personal =B5blog: http://leomolas.tumblr.com/ --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.