From lojban+bncCICntNPQBRC4wejqBBoE7vzngA@googlegroups.com Mon Feb 14 22:44:24 2011 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PpEe4-00009s-6X; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:44:23 -0800 Received: by gwb20 with SMTP id 20sf5371967gwb.16 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:44:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:date:from:reply-to:to:message-id :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=gOGs6v5Lmh8PqcbH+lKqt5UR3dq1N8P7ci5gJmJsKvs=; b=S/7HiqY1BeUGKEHXNU5zXacYS/ZX9O14M83pO30LmmXIUMqgtslLtkNIZf8bJzRiFU BZy9W3hKo2i7BOYyfB6DKYuT+dPYmAn4mnCqyWDxpR6u/PO+vEXBJXaXOWF4P4lhEQmd /4PbzmrSUkn1/xIFMUV8oe27Ap3th4pZEqgZU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:date:from:reply-to:to:message-id:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=JIVept8DZPotinOSOt+KsxO+cT1+HMHDks1ABg7oCzWDEnTJYGEnCXXmeaBd6zlOhi OUBapJxLgUvj5KopMEHke/SaH/2QdkghEOED2313dhIHP5iFy8poja0/OJyp3MkrEGjz /jS0++wT+qqc1X0D156+MCvUTvIAcTFZzbsoQ= Received: by 10.151.109.8 with SMTP id l8mr655432ybm.25.1297752248261; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:44:08 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.90.138.2 with SMTP id l2ls32553agd.4.p; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:44:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.91.100.8 with SMTP id c8mr481741agm.15.1297752247608; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:44:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:44:06 -0800 (PST) From: Lindar Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <27958100.303.1297752246667.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnp16> Subject: [lojban] la .alynpost. ma zvati (Regarding lodockikumazvati) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: lindarthebard@yahoo.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_302_7684025.1297752246664" ------=_Part_302_7684025.1297752246664 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would love to learn how to be the person running this game, but the=20 website gives me very few clues. Could anybody help me figure this thing=20 out? Secondly: The Lojban in the Universal Speed Curriculum is wrong. It's just plain=20 terrible, in fact. I don't know exactly where to put a proper translation, so I'll post it=20 here. i lo tadni ku cusku lu .i ta mo li=92u ca lo xance cusku. be zoi xan. *weir= d=20 hand symbols here* .xan. *correction magic* .i lo tadni ku cusku lu .i ta mo li'u ca lo nu xance cusku zoi xan. *weird= =20 symbols* .xan. Correct all instances of this type of sentence to be like this. Next is:=20 i lo tadni ku cusku lu .i lo ta rokci pe do xu li=92u ca lo xance cusku be = zoi=20 xan. *weird symbols* .xan Unfortunately, this is not a complete utterance: "A rock?". {lo ta rokci}= =20 actually unfolds to {lo rokci pe ta}, which adds further confusion when you= =20 add another {pe}. It doesn't actually make sense in Lojban. Should be: .i lo tadni ku cusku lu .i ta pe do xu rokci li'u ca lo nu xance cusku zoi= =20 xan. *weird symbols* .xan. This is asserting that it is, indeed, a rock. However, this whole meaning i= s=20 rather strange, because one could also assert that, despite the fact that i= t=20 is somebody else's rock, it is also the speaker's rock in a Lojbanic sense.= =20 It's on the table near the speaker, so I would say that, yes, it is. I=20 understand that the goal is to keep the game semantically simple, but those= =20 words don't mean what you want them to mean, so you have to pick a differen= t=20 meaning or a different word. I think this would be a lovely time to=20 introduce le/ku. Start with {.i mi ponse lo rokci ku .i xu do ponse lo rokci ku .i do na=20 ponse lo rokci ku .i mi ponse lo rokci ku .i do ponse lo grana ku .i xu do= =20 ponse lo grana ku} etc. {.i mi je'a ponse lo rokci ku .i je do je'a ponse lo grana ku} finally at= =20 the end, etc. Please get back to me about translations. If you can directly e-mail me=20 chunks of 10 basic phrases to translate, I will translate 10 chunks every= =20 two or three days for you. This sort of basic conversation is very easy for= =20 me to translate, but is also very important to get correct the first time,= =20 so I would be very glad to help you fully translate the curriculum. So, sen= d=20 me some stuff to translate, I'll e-mail you back as soon as I can, then you= =20 send me more once you get those ten. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. ------=_Part_302_7684025.1297752246664 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I would love to learn how to be the person running this game, but the = website gives me very few clues. Could anybody help me figure this thing ou= t?

Secondly:

The Lojban in the= Universal Speed Curriculum is wrong. It's just plain terrible, in fact.
I don't know exactly where to put a proper translation, so= I'll post it here.

i lo tadni ku cusku lu .i= ta mo li=92u ca lo xance cusku. be zoi xan. *weird hand symbols here*= .xan.

*correction magic*

.i lo tadni ku cusku lu .i ta mo li'u ca lo nu xance cusku zoi xan. = *weird symbols* .xan.

Correct all instances of thi= s type of sentence to be like this.

Next is: =

i lo tadni ku cusku lu .i lo ta rokci pe do = xu li=92u ca lo xance cusku be zoi xan. *weird symbols* .xan

Unfortunately, this is not a complete utterance: "A r= ock?". {lo ta rokci} actually unfolds to {lo rokci pe ta}, which adds furth= er confusion when you add another {pe}. It doesn't actually make sense in L= ojban.

Should be:

.i lo t= adni ku cusku lu .i ta pe do xu rokci li'u ca lo nu xance cusku zoi xan. *w= eird symbols* .xan.

This is asserting that it is, = indeed, a rock. However, this whole meaning is rather strange, because one = could also assert that, despite the fact that it is somebody else's rock, i= t is also the speaker's rock in a Lojbanic sense. It's on the table near th= e speaker, so I would say that, yes, it is. I understand that the goal is t= o keep the game semantically simple, but those words don't mean what you wa= nt them to mean, so you have to pick a different meaning or a different wor= d. I think this would be a lovely time to introduce le/ku.

Start with {.i mi ponse lo rokci ku .i xu do ponse lo rokci k= u .i do na ponse lo rokci ku .i mi ponse lo rokci ku .i do ponse lo grana k= u .i xu do ponse lo grana ku} etc.

{.i mi je'a pon= se lo rokci ku .i je do je'a ponse lo grana ku} finally at the end, etc.

Please get back to me about translations. If you can= directly e-mail me chunks of 10 basic phrases to translate, I will transla= te 10 chunks every two or three days for you. This sort of basic conversati= on is very easy for me to translate, but is also very important to get corr= ect the first time, so I would be very glad to help you fully translate the= curriculum. So, send me some stuff to translate, I'll e-mail you back as s= oon as I can, then you send me more once you get those ten.

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