From lojban+bncCMuAoImuBxCAsqPqBBoEWmpTiQ@googlegroups.com Tue Feb 01 20:09:54 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PkU2P-00053b-0e; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 20:09:54 -0800 Received: by fxm10 with SMTP id 10sf3362332fxm.16 for ; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 20:09:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=0/xUlOGp3awRodLg/yZvEs3enNJvtemuYv27W+JFA+Q=; b=lrV1EJD/LiHAZp7DJc/ILHDyJRdUQAndgPVaBQ3q4etItcrL+5GNVsgEZHjgCsaw2W ejMrOSRJRoZMw9azynPAq6++RAU3SAtNDgLQS3HYS0T98by38isQ6wLJA888t702kBZv 1fTOnQ2UGovRtYBHf6PqyyRPwcdz8DK18m4VY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=TQrxui3xXuI5F08iAim/wsLWHFA1kLFQXUUBmmW/rJdTxRMn1hIr+q1D8DQVcbX4R0 +JVRhSzO0ttHq8xplBN7YYZUrYk95aUpv6Ay0cTkYaV+u0T2whgSyNlpp6sWDhfx/Mle zYV4ZlS8BcX4akXmmVCpewCfS4SwdA8F8JpUY= Received: by 10.223.78.129 with SMTP id l1mr753642fak.32.1296619776569; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 20:09:36 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.138.67 with SMTP id z3ls83585bkt.0.p; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 20:09:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.79.144 with SMTP id p16mr781373bkk.8.1296619775624; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 20:09:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.79.144 with SMTP id p16mr781372bkk.8.1296619775605; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 20:09:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-bw0-f50.google.com (mail-bw0-f50.google.com [209.85.214.50]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o17si3676423bkw.6.2011.02.01.20.09.34 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 01 Feb 2011 20:09:34 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jtorndorff@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.50; Received: by bwg12 with SMTP id 12so187900bwg.9 for ; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 20:09:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.113.148 with SMTP id a20mr1807098bkq.48.1296619774366; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 20:09:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.15.10 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Feb 2011 20:09:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <871962.98840.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <871962.98840.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 23:09:34 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Idea: Levels From: Jameson Orndorff To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jtorndorff@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jtorndorff@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jtorndorff@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My new learning system will involve a level structure similar to what you've said. It's in the works. On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:43 PM, John E Clifford wro= te: > On grammatical grasp. there are two old criteria. =A01. =A0Grasp of simpl= e sentence > structure - =A0can they get all the pieces in place in a simple sentence.= 2. how > many transformations from underlying (surface) structures (or to) does th= e most > complex sentence contain. =A0This latter is quantifiable and so proably i= s the > first. =A0 One might want to add some qualitative matters, since some > transformations are inherently more opaque than others and the notion of = "simple > sentence" is probably open to a range of interpretations. > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Leo Molas > To: lojban@googlegroups.com > Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 9:20:30 PM > Subject: [lojban] Idea: Levels > > coirodo > > I've been thinking for a long time this idea, and I wanted to write it > down in order to discuss it (and not to forgive it). What if we > stablish some: > > > *Levels* (beginner, intermediate, expert...) > > > I know, it's really obvious this was discussed before, but I think I > have something larger in mind. > > (this is the obvious part) > A level shall be a series of contents, or concepts of lojban grammar, > along with a quantity of minimum vocabulary. There would be 3 or more > levels (the more, the better), in ascending order of difficulty. > > (this may be not) > A level shall be very well defined. With this I mean to enumerate the > possible grammar structures that can be in a lojban text readable for > a student of the level. The vocabulary for that level should be > divided in the existing categories (gismu, cmavo, lujvo...), and > establish a subset of those words. > > For (a toy) example, a beginner should know: > > - gismu, and the place structure. > - how to say his name. > > And the subset of words: > > gismu =3D {klama, blanu, zdani} > cmavo =3D {mi'e, i, coi} > > This way, it's easy to say whether a text would be readable for a > beginner or not. It would be *so* easy, that a program could do that. > So, we could make a program that classifies the entire lojban corpus. > (this occurred to me when I was looking for a text to read, so I could > practice a little, but I always had a difficult concept (actually, > vocabulary is not a problem, since I could search in a dictionary)) > > > The advantages of this: > - Having a classified corpus would be beneficial for people writing a tex= tbook. > - Also for them, the levels should be a good place to start. > - Homogenization. If many are attracted by this, and start writing > (or modifying) many textbooks, the topics between books could be > interchangeable for students. > > > The enumeration of vocabulary for each level should be easy. For each > group of words (gismu, cmavo, lujvo...), we could order them by > frequency (I think I saw something like that with gismu), and > establish limits there. > > The enumeration of grammar is the tricky one. If you like the idea, we > should discuss the number of levels, and the contents of them. > > > I think it could be easy for me, if someday this levels grow up and > become usable, to modify some of the existing parsers into a > classifier. > > If I remember something else, I'll post it. In the meantime, I'd like > to know what you think about this. > > mu'o mi'e .leos. > > -- > My Lojban journal: http://learninglojban.wordpress.com/ > My personal =B5blog: http://leomolas.tumblr.com/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.