From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhC5sdPsBBoEeiv0hQ@googlegroups.com Thu Mar 31 12:40:58 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q5Nji-0003XT-CQ; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:40:58 -0700 Received: by fxm14 with SMTP id 14sf1923961fxm.16 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:40:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=ZleV23kxmDcivanuHRfmZMknREbnOXwWM2ZW22uEE20=; b=D8RpkqGY0iejQ3amAdS/xUwPzozrHfSig3WHIoezNcH5E5Lkxatywhhw7f2RWATY+q GN1G4UC0eI/hprKWaMKtWb57JQjJth9JEgPUybNc/0rHVWjAR72BMhPhFdviXFIe3DY1 BRPkAfB8PnVLeriJOk7MZbpPYIQSZEh+hoRPw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=HKULqe3GcFnIBTURYGugjWsCxbCM2pVexnZ/vcfCvIMgCwsjiclRDiINTGyXnv1bfr QsZsxOGAhd3cgpRtW3s9/AcsCGkG7C1Upc5m2iuMnXSEAl9/nW+E5xgLJhCjNy0TYsZ5 y+OqrlaJqi5BWyC0oyG4tLC/8YGeElpKIFiqk= Received: by 10.223.114.198 with SMTP id f6mr316594faq.22.1301600441478; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:40:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.138.67 with SMTP id z3ls1020048bkt.0.p; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.173.129 with SMTP id p1mr410761bkz.12.1301600440228; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.173.129 with SMTP id p1mr410760bkz.12.1301600440197; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f43.google.com (mail-bw0-f43.google.com [209.85.214.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o19si249160bkw.7.2011.03.31.12.40.40 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.43; Received: by mail-bw0-f43.google.com with SMTP id 14so2546381bwz.2 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:40:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.19.3 with SMTP id y3mr2687656bka.180.1301600439914; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.104.5 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:40:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:40:39 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Extensibility of vocatives (do'a non-selbri) From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555717adc5307049fcc7767 --00032555717adc5307049fcc7767 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: > Is there an experimental cmavo which binds two things into a tanru-like > state? sa'unai something which takes the grammar of the right word, with the > meaning modified in some vague way by the selbri to its left? > I doubt it. > Would we want one? I doubt it. > need one? > I doubt it. All you need for a tanru is two selbri (or more). And everything in Lojban either is or can be made into a selbri. Put two selbri next to each other, and it's a tanru. Here's an example of a very big tanru created using all of the selbri conversions I know of: me by. me'u cimei xamoi pimucu'o nu'a su'i piresi'e ki'ova'e klama bratce kolbasa me la.pandas. me lonu cadzu kei me lu .i tirxu .i tirxu li'u me zoi gy. {me} is probably the most useful converter .gy. > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Ian Johnson wrote: > >> {nicte ze'ei co'o} doesn't even really make sense if you ignore English; >> it means "night", the predicate, but has the grammar of selma'o COI. That >> is, the semantics of the second word are completely ignored, only its >> grammar is significant. >> >> Personally I'd just say {co'o xamgu sipna} or something, I think. >> >> mu'o mi'e .latros. >> >> On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 4:42 AM, .arpis. wrote: >> >>> It all started with the simple question of someone asking me if {nicte >>> xamgu} was a valid translation of "Good night." >>> >>> Sometimes, going off the deep end is fun. >>> >>> I recognize (or at least understand it to be the case) that selbri are as >>> extensible as I could possibly want them. >>> >>> Since selbri can be converted into sumti, sumti are also as extensible as >>> I could want. >>> >>> Is there a way that I can express a vocative which is a night parting? A >>> water parting? A death parting? >>> >>> Is {ze'ei} the accepted way to do this, and are {nicte ze'ei co'o}, etc. >>> valid uses? >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > Alex R > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --00032555717adc5307049fcc7767 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Alex Rozenshtey= n <rpglover64@= gmail.com> wrote:
Is there an experimental cmavo which binds two things into a tanru-like sta= te? sa'unai something which takes the grammar of the right word, with t= he meaning modified in some vague way by the selbri to its left?

I doubt it.
=A0
Would we want one?

I doubt it.
=A0
need one?
<= div>
I doubt it.

All you need for a tanru is two selbri (or more). An= d everything in Lojban either is or can be made into a selbri. Put two selb= ri next to each other, and it's a tanru.

Here's an example o= f a very big tanru created using all of the selbri conversions I know of:
me by. me'u cimei xamoi pimucu'o nu'a su'i piresi'e= ki'ova'e klama bratce kolbasa me la.pandas. me lonu cadzu kei me l= u .i tirxu .i tirxu li'u me zoi gy. {me} is probably the most useful co= nverter .gy.
=A0
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 12:32 AM, = Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
{nicte ze'ei co'o} doesn't even really make sense if you ignore= English; it means "night", the predicate, but has the grammar of= selma'o COI. That is, the semantics of the second word are completely = ignored, only its grammar is significant.

Personally I'd just say {co'o xamgu sipna} or something, I thin= k.

mu'o mi'e .latros.

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 4:42 AM, .arpis. <rpg= lover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
<= /div>
It all started with the simple question of someone asking me if {= nicte xamgu} was a valid translation of "Good night."

Sometimes, going off the deep end is fun.

I recognize (or at lea= st understand it to be the case) that selbri are as extensible as I could p= ossibly want them.

Since selbri can be converted into sumti, sumti are also as extensible = as I could want.

Is there a way that I can express a vocative which = is a night parting?=A0 A water parting?=A0 A death parting?

Is {ze&#= 39;ei} the accepted way to do this, and are {nicte ze'ei co'o}, etc= . valid uses?

--
mu'o mi'e .arpis.

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--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R
=

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be = denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I= am your father. :D )

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