From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhDOzunrBBoEjwJbMg@googlegroups.com Fri Mar 11 10:18:06 2011 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Py6uY-0000qC-Dd; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:18:06 -0800 Received: by gxk3 with SMTP id 3sf528387gxk.16 for ; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:17:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=dmFhb8Q3gQNiGRCgXh8Ro+EHLrDrvGgAz3F9cd9dH5s=; b=PTuasmODiYSgQ72ghBnCW0/2mSEaHyrm0KHrctwaoUaNMoxgggwVhdIINak9C+m9nc Z4pKSXQHQlbx2RmKvmgjJFAam9f9tRp4T33Eda2GkDUtRAbcfChlOGyk1yeSMv6RE968 76bG4L5+nnG9664iG/Jh1ZGIx3KgepU1/YCmQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=oQP9EwT4+DOCoL0+qbiKSoGyeM7yhTu9G8hwvMu+cjlIsOMtQ8uR02KIdveXPImyJL WXf1IyUniPwKryDTSJqRPweCpQIGdq9mveDdYAlzeMtnfDJWy+HOY5uAzgVRwotejNJ9 8m/1bvuyHQCRNgS/dnE5P9VwgByqaui4q1NW0= Received: by 10.150.73.31 with SMTP id v31mr216504yba.62.1299867470835; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:17:50 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.176.130 with SMTP id be2ls1830805ibb.1.p; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:17:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.220.134 with SMTP id hy6mr415831icb.31.1299867469423; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:17:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.220.134 with SMTP id hy6mr415830icb.31.1299867469390; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:17:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f169.google.com (mail-iy0-f169.google.com [209.85.210.169]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c4si1093072ict.4.2011.03.11.10.17.49 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:17:49 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.169 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.169; Received: by mail-iy0-f169.google.com with SMTP id 13so4017966iyf.14 for ; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:17:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.43.64.5 with SMTP id xg5mr2849292icb.121.1299867468004; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:17:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.200.211 with HTTP; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:17:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <107229.22351.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <827885.13193.qm@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <201103101228.36457.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 11:17:47 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Register Login Logout revisited From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.169 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec51b1d29af7c43049e38fa46 --bcaec51b1d29af7c43049e38fa46 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yeah, emulating a natlang always ends up being a bad idea. On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 8:41 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > I like it. It makes sense. It's not five hundred pe'a rafsi long. And > it's based on describing the idea instead of just emulating the english. > On Mar 11, 2011 8:34 AM, "vensa" wrote: > > OK, so here's my take on this whole issue: > > > > 1. As for "register", dictionary.com defines the noun "register" as > > firstly: > > "a book in which records of acts, events, names, etc., are kept" > > and the verb "register" as firstly: > > "to enter or cause to be entered formally in a register". > > This causes me to want "register" to be about "recording", i.e. > > {vreji}. > > And, what are you recording? The fact that you are a member. > > So I propose: > > {cmirejgau} > > Defined as: > > da gasnu lonu zo'e vreji lodu'u da cmima de vau da di > > Or: > > x1=g1=v3=c1 registers as a member of x2=c2, registration preserved in > > medium x3=v4 > > > > > > 2. As for "log in/out". Obviously, these terms need to be somehow > > opposite of each other. To do this, we might think to either use > > {to'e}, or oppositely defined gismu (such as the proposed {nenri} and > > {bartu}). This might work if we want to stick with something simple > > like "Enter" and "Exit" (which is BTW how most hebrew sites translate > > "log in/out"). > > However, if we want to be more sophisticated, the {to'e} method > > becomes problematic, because the act of logging in is not exactly > > opposite to the act of logging out. i.e. When logging in you provide > > credentials to be recognized by, and when logging out you simply > > remove yourself. You don't "unprovide" those credentials. > > > > That's why IMO we should focus here on defining the "state" of being > > logged in, and use {co'a} and {co'u} as the "opposites" in the > > relation (as was recently suggested). Also, I think it would be good > > to have some common link, between the word for "register" and "logged > > in". So, IMO being logged in is about providing some kind of > > credentials (which incidentaly dont have do be a "name" persay (you > > might log in with a fingerprint)) that "make you familiar" to the site/ > > system/group which you previously registered with. > > So, in concluson I propose: > > {cmisau} > > Defined as: > > da slabu de loka da cmima de vau di > > Or: > > x1=s1=c1 is logged in to x2=s2=c2 by standard x3=s4 > > > > Effectively, "log in" and "log out" become {co'arcmisau} and > > {co'urcmisau} respectively - or just {ko co'a cmisau} and {ko co'u > > cmisau} > > > > On Mar 10, 11:29 pm, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> Logging in is a kind of identification or authentication, what can e do > with > >> that concept? > >> > >> Sent from my Android. > >> > >> On Mar 10, 2011 11:58 AM, ".arpis." > wrote: > >> > >> iesai > >> > >> I agree with {co'a broda}, although I think {mo'u broda} might be better > for > >> logging out (it's the natural end of one event of "being logged in", not > >> some interruption). > >> > >> I like the idea of {cmene} being in the lujvo, but I'm less sure of > {zvati}. > >> > >> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Pierre Abbat > wrote: > >> > >> > On Thursday 10 Marc... > >> > >> -- > >> mu'o mi'e .arpis. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "lojban" group. > >> To p... > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --bcaec51b1d29af7c43049e38fa46 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah, emulating a natlang always ends up being a bad idea.

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 8:41 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

I like it.=A0 = It makes sense.=A0 It's not five hundred pe'a rafsi long.=A0 And it= 's based on describing the idea instead of just emulating the english.<= /p>

On Mar 11, 2011 8:34 AM, "vensa" <<= a href=3D"mailto:seraviv@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">seraviv@gmail.com= > wrote:
> OK, so here's my take on this = whole issue:
>
> 1. As for "register", dictionary.com defines the noun "register" as> firstly:
> "a book in which records of acts, events, name= s, etc., are kept"
> and the verb "register" as firstly:
> "to enter o= r cause to be entered formally in a register".
> This causes me = to want "register" to be about "recording", i.e.
> {vreji}.
> And, what are you recording? The fact that you are a = member.
> So I propose:
> {cmirejgau}
> Defined as:
&g= t; da gasnu lonu zo'e vreji lodu'u da cmima de vau da di
> Or= :
> x1=3Dg1=3Dv3=3Dc1 registers as a member of x2=3Dc2, registration prese= rved in
> medium x3=3Dv4
>
>
> 2. As for "lo= g in/out". Obviously, these terms need to be somehow
> opposite = of each other. To do this, we might think to either use
> {to'e}, or oppositely defined gismu (such as the proposed {nenri} = and
> {bartu}). This might work if we want to stick with something si= mple
> like "Enter" and "Exit" (which is BTW how = most hebrew sites translate
> "log in/out").
> However, if we want to be more sophis= ticated, the {to'e} method
> becomes problematic, because the act= of logging in is not exactly
> opposite to the act of logging out. i= .e. When logging in you provide
> credentials to be recognized by, and when logging out you simply
&g= t; remove yourself. You don't "unprovide" those credentials.<= br>>
> That's why IMO we should focus here on defining the &q= uot;state" of being
> logged in, and use {co'a} and {co'u} as the "opposites&qu= ot; in the
> relation (as was recently suggested). Also, I think it w= ould be good
> to have some common link, between the word for "r= egister" and "logged
> in". So, IMO being logged in is about providing some kind of
&= gt; credentials (which incidentaly dont have do be a "name" persa= y (you
> might log in with a fingerprint)) that "make you famili= ar" to the site/
> system/group which you previously registered with.
> So, in conc= luson I propose:
> {cmisau}
> Defined as:
> da slabu de l= oka da cmima de vau di
> Or:
> x1=3Ds1=3Dc1 is logged in to x2= =3Ds2=3Dc2 by standard x3=3Ds4
>
> Effectively, "log in" and "log out" becom= e {co'arcmisau} and
> {co'urcmisau} respectively - or just {k= o co'a cmisau} and {ko co'u
> cmisau}
>
> On Mar= 10, 11:29=A0pm, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Logging in is a kind of identification or authentication, what can= e do with
>> that concept?
>>
>> Sent from my A= ndroid.
>>
>> On Mar 10, 2011 11:58 AM, ".arpis.&quo= t; <r= pglover64+jbo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> iesai
>>
>> I agree with {co'a b= roda}, although I think {mo'u broda} might be better for
>> lo= gging out (it's the natural end of one event of "being logged in&q= uot;, not
>> some interruption).
>>
>> I like the idea of {cm= ene} being in the lujvo, but I'm less sure of {zvati}.
>>
&= gt;> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Pierre Abbat <p...@phma.optus.nu> wrote: >>
>> > On Thursday 10 Marc...
>>
>> --=
>> mu'o mi'e .arpis.
>>
>> --
>&g= t; You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s
>> "lojban" group.
>> To p...
>
> -- =
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= Groups "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email= to lojban@goo= glegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googl= egroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://grou= ps.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be = denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I= am your father. :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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