From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBC5_YvtBBoE6mXw3A@googlegroups.com Mon Apr 11 06:14:51 2011 Received: from mail-ew0-f61.google.com ([209.85.215.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q9Gx5-0002eR-Et; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:14:51 -0700 Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5sf623686ewy.16 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:14:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=CCI99sxrMG0XLeRjWGLwA4n1ISBiniNND7pxeTFvTVA=; b=LDvGQCZZ6xHJaHS2kfUS8tURep6AZYlvFdZcUeRMntvR47MOeXRo+9WUbhnfvlrhOW 73ei65DvJWEKRJY6RRDLzrySRXZWj2jzdEzCGu4dj6f6I9ppboNIn1YYDG5pGby9tC7D 8G6fBlnR+CoxMwVwoT7qFKZOhpPyAnAiZ6FX0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=45VGKUgaXvM9dwHehMiXglKEwoABROBqwT+jOmMVwPTDG/0irl09dwXHMS/Kw5p+di yhJLRXfMZAXL829v/wxyNpidyWNH/JE3wAjZ9saiQKXFZQLWOx+bBASRYA/FoGhvrtLT 82jSiQJogHiFv5gGSflE1znImKkULYibnY8GU= Received: by 10.213.2.65 with SMTP id 1mr1440522ebi.0.1302527673543; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:14:33 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.7.210 with SMTP id 58ls493096eep.1.p; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:14:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.119.13 with SMTP id m13mr457079eeh.54.1302527671556; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:14:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.119.13 with SMTP id m13mr457078eeh.54.1302527671529; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:14:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ew0-f42.google.com (mail-ew0-f42.google.com [209.85.215.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p52si1834504eeh.3.2011.04.11.06.14.31 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:14:31 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.42; Received: by ewy2 with SMTP id 2so1677152ewy.29 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:14:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.33.143 with SMTP id h15mr1043553ebd.22.1302527671255; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:14:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.33.75 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:14:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Luke Bergen Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 09:14:11 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Regularization To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c104e27c1f904a0a45b08 --0015174c104e27c1f904a0a45b08 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks for the explanation gejyspa. In your second example (the one using da'i), is there any hint of "ri'a"ness in that "counter-factual"? I think that's the heart of the matter. On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > Counterfactual meaning not as things are, but as they might be. So, > for example "va'o lo nu lo snime cu carvi kei mi ma'ekla le birju"-> > "I drive to the office in the snow" ("in the situation of it snowing, > I drive to the office") "va'o da'i lo nu lo snime cu carvi kei mi > ma'ekla le birju" -> "if it snows, I will drive to the office". ("in > the theoretical situation of it snowing, I drive to the office") > Clearer? > --gejyspa > > > On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Remo Dentato wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Michael Turniansky > > wrote: > >> But also remember, va'o doesn't work as a > >> counterfactual on its own. You must also have the da'i to mark it as > >> hypothetical. > > > > Could you elaborate a little bit? What do you mean with "counterfactual"? > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0015174c104e27c1f904a0a45b08 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the=A0explanation=A0gejyspa. =A0In your second example (the one = using da'i), is there any hint of "ri'a"ness in that &quo= t;counter-factual"? =A0I think that's the heart of the matter.
=
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Michael Turniansky <<= a href=3D"mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com">mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0Counterfactual meaning not as things are, but as they might be. =A0So,<= br> for example "va'o lo nu lo snime cu carvi kei mi ma'ekla le bi= rju"->
"I drive to the office in the snow" ("in the situation of it= snowing,
I drive to the office") =A0"va'o da'i lo nu lo snime cu c= arvi kei mi
ma'ekla le birju" -> "if it snows, I will drive to the off= ice". =A0("in
the theoretical situation of it snowing, I drive to the office")
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Clearer?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa


On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Michael Turniansky
> <mturniansky@gmail.com= > wrote:
>> But also remember, va'o doesn't work as a
>> counterfactual on its own. You must also have the da'i to mark= it as
>> hypothetical.
>
> Could you elaborate a little bit? What do you mean with "counterf= actual"?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/= lojban?hl=3Den.
>
>

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