From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhDMm4ztBBoEoy30KA@googlegroups.com Mon Apr 11 07:19:10 2011 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q9HxK-0008O6-7Z; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 07:19:10 -0700 Received: by vws2 with SMTP id 2sf3245991vws.16 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 07:19:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=7OLZmyH0s+THgDjYYvG+9OdKxR0i04LC3K9SUwFlvWE=; b=IGmp2t72ErmMAmV2XUVhwrPK1I94E0lzZmfCRKtYCVWToF/CZtBCZq25UZ1j0BYFn9 JHrqLmcqdUiTnR143zBMrYFjk9JwxDY3Rba34xw0jm1jBftz72RpzOMntgzOtbJ3Sk7J 84/bN20RAlL9IglPj6CQx8Ez6eCs1m3AAcvBc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=xaT9V9j2S0FEVH+qfwhYxV/t9tRDSGhY3KxavuI+9Z8eNh+btko+lvXs9v2YC+UUfI rS6savg+NVIepB5+omcLsS215jjQD0ZwxeHHii94JrRIDKIiu0uN1IGPYD4JwB7mI8+G 5iqoHZ/DkT3egrKH2j48sXNFtqrx0LGI6szXs= Received: by 10.220.191.76 with SMTP id dl12mr603231vcb.33.1302531532931; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 07:18:52 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.67.30 with SMTP id p30ls1921102vci.3.p; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 07:18:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.181.201 with SMTP id bz9mr254715vcb.19.1302531530792; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 07:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.181.201 with SMTP id bz9mr254714vcb.19.1302531530773; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 07:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f171.google.com (mail-qy0-f171.google.com [209.85.216.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fl21si1364352vbb.3.2011.04.11.07.18.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 11 Apr 2011 07:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.171; Received: by mail-qy0-f171.google.com with SMTP id 19so1400789qyj.2 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 07:18:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.117.95 with SMTP id p31mr4196954qcq.97.1302531493947; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 07:18:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.96.135 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 07:18:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <759730.3522.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <759730.3522.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 10:18:13 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Regularization From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would argue (and my opinion isn't necessarily the "one true way", mind you) that yeah it makes a factual claim, as does the main bridi. (Although I might simply phrase it "Having a pet dinosaur,...." (e.g. "... I go through a lot of Bronto Chow in week") In other words, I contend that with all BAI/FI'O constructions, you are making a factual claim. "Mi citka bau la lojban" I am not just claiming that I write, but I'm writing in lojban. Without the lojban part, the sentence just isn't true. If I say "mi gunka ki'u lo nu mi nitcu lo jdini", if I don't need the money, the bridi is not true. I am asserting "mi gunka .ije mi nitcu lo jdini". "va'" is no different in this regard. --gejyspa On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 10:05 AM, John E Clifford wr= ote: > Taking all that into account is {va'o lonu mi ponse lo dalpe'o dinsauru} = "Since > I have a pet dinosaur" or is it merely indeterminate as to the truth of t= he > condition? > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Remo Dentato > To: lojban@googlegroups.com > Cc: Michael Turniansky > Sent: Mon, April 11, 2011 8:20:14 AM > Subject: Re: [lojban] Regularization > > On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: >> =A0Counterfactual meaning not as things are, but as they might be. =A0So= , >> for example "va'o lo nu lo snime cu carvi kei mi ma'ekla le birju"-> >> "I drive to the office in the snow" ("in the situation of it snowing, >> I drive to the office") =A0"va'o da'i lo nu lo snime cu carvi kei mi >> ma'ekla le birju" -> "if it snows, I will drive to the office". =A0("in >> the theoretical situation of it snowing, I drive to the office") >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Clearer? > > A little bit. I guess that in the translation of "if I had a pet dinosaur= " > > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-download_wiki_attachment.php?attId=3D784 > > Instead of {va'o lonu mi ponse lo dalpe'o dinsauru}) I should have > used {va'o da'i lonu mi ponse > lo dalpe'o dinsauru} > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.