From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhDO9KHtBBoEWGj4qQ@googlegroups.com Fri Apr 15 10:03:27 2011 Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QAmQU-0001jl-V1; Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:03:27 -0700 Received: by vxk20 with SMTP id 20sf1056126vxk.16 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:03:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=q+12UXKUBTP6CuvH8TNqm6YClGTU7ImSHiLN0MBgUWw=; b=L830Hp+r6t919CQaTzSckfsN4AkW1W2HHj7iOF1oJfejmOmgTmktHplTf14zVxbe80 AvFftyUl3pnUUkrBgWYUG48PcCeMXSrLDRIi6V/Kd+nC+NwJtLp46Hc5tnBVHWqSuopr E6FlMgtQQrNCUrf0V30N+j1OlGIB2wlpJbSgc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=ohIMw+4r+bgODuq1tgbH+DNLkM6neZnst5Soc9oTt/Z+/FRtJ9xX9rVS6y3sKD8RJQ f94nzzGbk6qVZnuZt1TIF06KTWFRxStrs1EGFPvHl9bjY/8FTpIwNU1hTy3TsWauhL80 Z0p6h167UVwHEEVGvReUj8dSfwpOA6wulAUow= Received: by 10.220.88.67 with SMTP id z3mr208332vcl.7.1302886990377; Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:03:10 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.67.30 with SMTP id p30ls209793vci.3.gmail; Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.17.131 with SMTP id s3mr672183vca.12.1302886989539; Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.17.131 with SMTP id s3mr672182vca.12.1302886989500; Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f177.google.com (mail-qy0-f177.google.com [209.85.216.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x27si203348vcr.1.2011.04.15.10.03.09 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.177; Received: by mail-qy0-f177.google.com with SMTP id 38so2168710qyl.15 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:03:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.29.9 with SMTP id o9mr1634226qcc.58.1302886989239; Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.192.70 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:03:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 13:03:09 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] selbri lo TAG sumti From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, of course, it is, in some sense. The important point to remember is that the FA series needs to be hooked after the selbri with a be when you convert the selbri to sumti, and a BAI needs to also, IF it has an argument attached to it, e.g. "lo klama be bai mi [be'o] cu tordu" ( that which is forced-by-me-to-come is short), but BAI without a sumti can act like more like a tense (PU/ZI), and can appear "nakedly" in front of the selbri word, which can then be converted to a sumti directly. --gejyspa On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Luke Bergen wrote= : > Ok, that makes sense. =A0I think the heart of my confusion started when I > learned BAI and thought "oh, so it's like FA". =A0So that lead me into > thoughts like "what in the hell is {lo fa gerku}". =A0But I think I've go= t it > now (for the time being) ;p > ki'e gejyspa > > On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: >> >> =A0I guess, if I am reading you correctly, you can certainly do that. >> But it's really not all that complicated. =A0Take these examples from >> the CLL: >> le ratcu cu citka le cirla >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0vi le vu panka >> =A0 =A0The rat eats the cheese >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0[short distance] the [long distance] park >> =A0 =A0The rat eats the cheese near the faraway park. >> (10.12.4) >> >> =A0lo ca nolraitru >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0be le fasygu'e cu na krecau >> =A0 =A0The-actual present noblest-governor >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0of the French country [false] is-hair-without. >> =A0 =A0The current king of France isn't bald. >> (15.2.6) >> >> =A0"lo TAG sumti" means nothing more or less like any other sumti, "X >> du lo broda" -> "X broda" =A0"X du lo TAG broda" -> "X TAG broda" =A0The >> tag (selbri tcita) comes along ("tags along" :-) with the selbri. =A0So >> when you say "mi bai klama ti", you have no problem with that, right? >> "I was forced to come here". =A0So you are a "forced-to-come" thing, >> with destination here. =A0So when I say "lo bai klama cu tordu", it just >> means the "forced-to-come thing" is short. >> >> =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Luke Bergen >> wrote: >> > Earlier I found a bridi of this form and upon being confused by it, I >> > did >> > some googleing and found this >> > >> > thread:=A0http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/4= 88b2cb9a22bb9d3 >> > Low and behold, this topic has confused me before. =A0For simplicity s= ake, >> > (I >> > know it's not technically=A0equivalent), could I read {broda lo TAG br= ode} >> > as >> > {broda lo brode (oh and lo brode is TAG to something in the way that >> > caku >> > makes a bridi "ca" to "something")}? >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups >> > "lojban" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. 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