From lojban+bncCOib25n_BhD68r_tBBoEeg2lwA@googlegroups.com Thu Apr 21 02:31:57 2011 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QCqEp-0000WA-0p; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 02:31:57 -0700 Received: by vws2 with SMTP id 2sf661102vws.16 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 02:31:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=/8lj62NiH6qh9hnTA5+gVVFzXC6jYr9U0axruA93KoU=; b=TAt3G4Jr9PFR02hQ3ZQJxdCv/+5czntiddl/3Bz3lH/WXx5AgwS92/ZStv2Y64gIQP 2Cp49ItnAT1r9LKWdkdTxzVSdmyKEeZVvHfO2QAddc7RwjTKgw23hl9EDeINfNpVTrfI ZHe8dLx68DWDD50/2+bOrRctECrzv+9BcAZeM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=ftqyG7BPjSf6brvpbIaX9mNzMq8hJ6uv+4UMcnfQgYoTm0DLuQwu3TvDRuNHLDfQ+q L/us01nVJgy3AiPk6GcTEUcuUpO8j11r+KcG/wSVJgIe6FkKTSf5JWtySkljFFoh/EeI 3nwHg3n5uQbLuWSusp3LWPCXpvGtPmHF58f0A= Received: by 10.220.128.5 with SMTP id i5mr933010vcs.4.1303378298559; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 02:31:38 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.4.144 with SMTP id 16ls854423vcr.2.gmail; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 02:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.17.131 with SMTP id s3mr2817836vca.12.1303378297659; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 02:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.17.131 with SMTP id s3mr2817835vca.12.1303378297623; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 02:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qw0-f45.google.com (mail-qw0-f45.google.com [209.85.216.45]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fo15si306111vbb.4.2011.04.21.02.31.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Apr 2011 02:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.45 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.45; Received: by mail-qw0-f45.google.com with SMTP id 8so1319000qwj.18 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 02:31:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.188.202 with SMTP id db10mr6016249qab.276.1303378296361; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 02:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.28.203 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 02:31:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 05:31:36 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Contesting a lujvo From: ".arpis." To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.45 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf303346495cd46d04a16a68f5 --20cf303346495cd46d04a16a68f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I realize this example is contrived. Still, there's certain to be a case where the new meaning for the word has at least as much claim to the word as the original. The dying industry could argue that the common word needs to change; after all, it's not a green bug but a green-skin bug {ri'orpilcinki}. On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 5:15 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > I think a better idea would be to pick a different word. because it's not a > green bug. It's a green-dye bug. (Unless the bug itself happens to be > coloured green, of course.) > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 3:01 AM, .arpis. wrote: > >> Theoretically, this could happen with any word, but it's probably most >> likely to occur with lujvo. >> >> Let's say that, in lojbanistan, {ri'orcinki} refers to a particular >> species of insects, notable for their green color. Now, let's imagine the >> dyeing industry discovering that another insect, not particularly notable in >> appearance, effectively produces a green dye when properly treated. How >> would the dyeing industry contest the meaning of {ri'orcinki}, if it should >> so choose? >> >> It would, of course, be incorrect to just start referring to the second >> insect as {ri'orcinki}, but otherwise, I can't imagine that any momentum >> would be generated otherwise. I also feel like liberal use of {za'e} would >> be both frustrating and counterproductive (it seems to say, "The other usage >> is right, but we're saying this anyway). >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu > do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .arpis. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --20cf303346495cd46d04a16a68f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I realize this example is contrived. Still, there's certain to be a cas= e where the new meaning for the word has at least as much claim to the word= as the original.

The dying industry could argue that the common wor= d needs to change; after all, it's not a green bug but a green-skin bug= {ri'orpilcinki}.

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 5:15 AM, Jonathan Jo= nes <eyeonus@gmai= l.com> wrote:
I think a better idea would be to pick a different word. because it's n= ot a green bug. It's a green-dye bug. (Unless the bug itself happens to= be coloured green, of course.)

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 3:01 AM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
Theoretically, this could happen with any word, but it's probably mos= t likely to occur with lujvo.

Let's say that, in lojbanistan, {ri'orcinki} refers to a partic= ular species of insects, notable for their green color. Now, let's imag= ine the dyeing industry discovering that another insect, not particularly n= otable in appearance, effectively produces a green dye when properly treate= d. How would the dyeing industry contest the meaning of {ri'orcinki}, i= f it should so choose?

It would, of course, be incorrect to just start referring= to the second insect as {ri'orcinki}, but otherwise, I can't imagi= ne that any momentum would be generated otherwise. I also feel like liberal= use of {za'e} would be both frustrating and counterproductive (it seem= s to say, "The other usage is right, but we're saying this anyway)= .

--
mu'o mi'e .arpis.

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--
mu'o mi'= e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa= bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am y= our father. :D )

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--
mu'o mi'= e .arpis.

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