From lojban+bncCOib25n_BhDXl8DtBBoEBo0s4w@googlegroups.com Thu Apr 21 03:50:25 2011 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QCrSd-0008No-9z; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 03:50:22 -0700 Received: by vws2 with SMTP id 2sf675631vws.16 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 03:50:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=rQ8PaFb0qiXCAAYGpxqPvc96EbkUEHeyH2XvcU+mYFc=; b=jBOo3PefsdnE4HXVXBdNC3R+gO5nrV3SXaTYRWl/3kb5h5G4zVjRnXZLTlW/WVZTVM HAjNoWIFydg/fWEYYltyvIkLaLZLeu30QI4+1SLKUz3CIWY62XHo44AVruhZatDRdov9 hL2QHHcpW/XUZtSDc7lyOVUOUzAQvmVX1JffU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=x7DwOTK6OnDXga+bmCuuhgXK5Fq2CfkTKocxgM9gA/tbZOteoMNXPyS7FJz4dl6MvS EDou2QLKIQ1227CEKjeZ7/FQFz90huv7vTs08Y/boJa2cM799KdWXveLEJydvPsBMZyq 8WvP96C9DRnDQiErVUq72W9El7z2C3+RYJqQQ= Received: by 10.220.16.134 with SMTP id o6mr883442vca.52.1303382999253; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 03:49:59 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.114.139 with SMTP id e11ls867369vcq.4.gmail; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 03:49:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.123.90 with SMTP id o26mr2815138vcr.4.1303382998214; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 03:49:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.123.90 with SMTP id o26mr2815136vcr.4.1303382998117; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 03:49:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f171.google.com (mail-qy0-f171.google.com [209.85.216.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j37si185931vcs.5.2011.04.21.03.49.57 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Apr 2011 03:49:57 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.171; Received: by qyj19 with SMTP id 19so3095060qyj.2 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 03:49:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.203.193 with SMTP id fj1mr5112016qab.226.1303382996622; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 03:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.28.203 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 03:49:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 06:49:56 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Contesting a lujvo From: ".arpis." To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf30051232851dd104a16b80c9 --20cf30051232851dd104a16b80c9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Optimistic, but unlikely. Under your solution, {ri'orcinki} would mean effectively the same thing as {crino cinki}, leaving the two parties with words longer by a syllable. If the dye-ers were willing to go with a longer lujvo, the contest probably wouldn't have happened in the first place. As another example, currently {sampla} refers to the relationship "some programmer writing a computer program that does something". But come the singularity, {skami platu} may be used more frequently to refer to plans made by a computer, not for a computer; the meaning of the lujvo {sampla} might become increasingly archaic, and there may be a push to adopt the meaning "some computer wrote some plan/design to do something". Lojban, being a prescribed language, would require the BPFK to decide what the meaning was, but what factors would influence its decision? On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 6:33 AM, tijlan wrote: > On 21 April 2011 10:01, .arpis. wrote: > > Let's say that, in lojbanistan, {ri'orcinki} refers to a particular > species > > of insects, notable for their green color. Now, let's imagine the dyeing > > industry discovering that another insect, not particularly notable in > > appearance, effectively produces a green dye when properly treated. How > > would the dyeing industry contest the meaning of {ri'orcinki}, if it > should > > so choose? > > One possible scenario is that each party create a sufficiently > specific and distinct lujvo for their own use -- such as > {ri'orpilcinki} and {ri'opracinki} -- and then agree to expand the > meaning of {ri'orcinki} -- such as "an insect that has to do with > green color" -- so as to make it a hypernym to the new lujvos. If then > {ri'orcinki} was unserviceably generic and vague, it would naturally > fall out of use. > > > mu'o > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- mu'o mi'e .arpis. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --20cf30051232851dd104a16b80c9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Optimistic, but unlikely.=A0 Under your solution, {ri'orcinki} would me= an effectively the same thing as {crino cinki}, leaving the two parties wit= h words longer by a syllable.=A0 If the dye-ers were willing to go with a l= onger lujvo, the contest probably wouldn't have happened in the first p= lace.

As another example, currently {sampla} refers to the relationship "= ;some programmer writing a computer program that does something".
<= br>But come the singularity, {skami platu} may be used more frequently to r= efer to plans made by a computer, not for a computer; the meaning of the lu= jvo {sampla} might become increasingly archaic, and there may be a push to = adopt the meaning "some computer wrote some plan/design to do somethin= g".

Lojban, being a prescribed language, would require the BPFK to decide w= hat the meaning was, but what factors would influence its decision?

=
On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 6:33 AM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
On 21 April 2011 10:01, .= arpis. <rpglover64+jbob= au@gmail.com> wrote:
> Let's say that, in lojbanistan, {ri'orcinki} refers to a parti= cular species
> of insects, notable for their green color. Now, let's imagine the = dyeing
> industry discovering that another insect, not particularly notable in<= br> > appearance, effectively produces a green dye when properly treated. Ho= w
> would the dyeing industry contest the meaning of {ri'orcinki}, if = it should
> so choose?

One possible scenario is that each party create a sufficiently
specific and distinct lujvo for their own use -- such as
{ri'orpilcinki} and {ri'opracinki} -- and then agree to expand the<= br> meaning of {ri'orcinki} -- such as "an insect that has to do with<= br> green color" -- so as to make it a hypernym to the new lujvos. If then=
{ri'orcinki} was unserviceably generic and vague, it would naturally fall out of use.


mu'o

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mu'o mi= 'e .arpis.

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