From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARD1psDtBBoEUwHVdQ@googlegroups.com Thu Apr 21 04:23:00 2011 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QCry6-0007ff-2p; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 04:22:53 -0700 Received: by yxd5 with SMTP id 5sf3718969yxd.16 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 04:22:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=oGVM9IgC8ueNRf0hubJOQRii5P+yJ04HZMDQLNA5JYY=; b=J7yASZvuT/tpLHsR8Om/iV5er0v21qF0Rv+FZm0AE6/jcgtUhgT/y7oPpJIEaotS4f 87IuPgCaTKLUJK5clGg8KhsKEZ4ehIwp3AqCUDcyRPTMNAnJ8Tj6z6eOlLoWV4VUwm5D PwPiOHiJ8GiL/tg2mEDGxkw3baSbnk1y4S3xk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=HvamfkfAopek3mnogtSKju1rWLZAsR3etrpZ60iGy3qj4ExzFGLjLQkc+/y2BR9kMP Q9DcWqnw7NQ7dzbBPzMeL5EibHLaxUBbCD7KN1WlPQOayGhSv1Gl5T0VJXNFBbduulFi t2l//KpF7NACpQ8yUv2mwKWtiC4otXizV3XdA= Received: by 10.150.13.14 with SMTP id 14mr71171ybm.16.1303384949805; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 04:22:29 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.8.234 with SMTP id i42ls2135158ibi.3.gmail; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 04:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.19.11 with SMTP id y11mr3965308iba.17.1303384948898; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 04:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.19.11 with SMTP id y11mr3965307iba.17.1303384948838; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 04:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f41.google.com (mail-ww0-f41.google.com [74.125.82.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r31si442261ibu.2.2011.04.21.04.22.27 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Apr 2011 04:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.41; Received: by wwi18 with SMTP id 18so4974461wwi.0 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 04:22:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.245.4 with SMTP id n4mr91190wer.88.1303384946252; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 04:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.13.211 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 04:22:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 07:22:26 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Contesting a lujvo From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e0cb4e43d1bbba1c5c04a16bf49e --e0cb4e43d1bbba1c5c04a16bf49e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 It doesn't say the programmer is human. As for this problem in general, though, yeah, I agree that there are some possible issues here. Drift with relatively specific words is a concern. mu'o mi'e .latros. On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 6:49 AM, .arpis. wrote: > Optimistic, but unlikely. Under your solution, {ri'orcinki} would mean > effectively the same thing as {crino cinki}, leaving the two parties with > words longer by a syllable. If the dye-ers were willing to go with a longer > lujvo, the contest probably wouldn't have happened in the first place. > > As another example, currently {sampla} refers to the relationship "some > programmer writing a computer program that does something". > > But come the singularity, {skami platu} may be used more frequently to > refer to plans made by a computer, not for a computer; the meaning of the > lujvo {sampla} might become increasingly archaic, and there may be a push to > adopt the meaning "some computer wrote some plan/design to do something". > > Lojban, being a prescribed language, would require the BPFK to decide what > the meaning was, but what factors would influence its decision? > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 6:33 AM, tijlan wrote: > >> On 21 April 2011 10:01, .arpis. wrote: >> > Let's say that, in lojbanistan, {ri'orcinki} refers to a particular >> species >> > of insects, notable for their green color. Now, let's imagine the dyeing >> > industry discovering that another insect, not particularly notable in >> > appearance, effectively produces a green dye when properly treated. How >> > would the dyeing industry contest the meaning of {ri'orcinki}, if it >> should >> > so choose? >> >> One possible scenario is that each party create a sufficiently >> specific and distinct lujvo for their own use -- such as >> {ri'orpilcinki} and {ri'opracinki} -- and then agree to expand the >> meaning of {ri'orcinki} -- such as "an insect that has to do with >> green color" -- so as to make it a hypernym to the new lujvos. If then >> {ri'orcinki} was unserviceably generic and vague, it would naturally >> fall out of use. >> >> >> mu'o >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >> > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .arpis. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --e0cb4e43d1bbba1c5c04a16bf49e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It doesn't say the programmer is human.

As for this problem in g= eneral, though, yeah, I agree that there are some possible issues here. Dri= ft with relatively specific words is a concern.

mu'o mi'e .= latros.

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 6:49 AM, .arpis. <rpglove= r64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
Optimistic, but unlikely.=A0 Under your solution, {ri'orcinki} would me= an effectively the same thing as {crino cinki}, leaving the two parties wit= h words longer by a syllable.=A0 If the dye-ers were willing to go with a l= onger lujvo, the contest probably wouldn't have happened in the first p= lace.

As another example, currently {sampla} refers to the relationship "= ;some programmer writing a computer program that does something".
<= br>But come the singularity, {skami platu} may be used more frequently to r= efer to plans made by a computer, not for a computer; the meaning of the lu= jvo {sampla} might become increasingly archaic, and there may be a push to = adopt the meaning "some computer wrote some plan/design to do somethin= g".

Lojban, being a prescribed language, would require the BPFK to decide w= hat the meaning was, but what factors would influence its decision?


On Thu, Apr 21= , 2011 at 6:33 AM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
On 21 April 2011 10:01, .arpis. <rpglover64+= jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
> Let's say that, in lojbanistan, {ri'orcinki} refers to a parti= cular species
> of insects, notable for their green color. Now, let's imagine the = dyeing
> industry discovering that another insect, not particularly notable in<= br> > appearance, effectively produces a green dye when properly treated. Ho= w
> would the dyeing industry contest the meaning of {ri'orcinki}, if = it should
> so choose?

One possible scenario is that each party create a sufficiently
specific and distinct lujvo for their own use -- such as
{ri'orpilcinki} and {ri'opracinki} -- and then agree to expand the<= br> meaning of {ri'orcinki} -- such as "an insect that has to do with<= br> green color" -- so as to make it a hypernym to the new lujvos. If then=
{ri'orcinki} was unserviceably generic and vague, it would naturally fall out of use.


mu'o

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mu'o mi'e .arpis.

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