From lojban+bncCMW93IevGRCg8NntBBoEW55yKg@googlegroups.com Tue Apr 26 00:45:50 2011 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QEcxu-0000Cc-22; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:45:50 -0700 Received: by gxk3 with SMTP id 3sf809390gxk.16 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:45:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=aS9ZY948l8Tqb1len5JCrO1HL20feiC9dyRVbZ16do4=; b=q3sekXFnMlsypO1Y2XnXeic5IAxXExnwo5pb03kgX9GNjkmGyMWvoQaiFOyqZMj69U 9quJbUErv94KEYWnKBXqceLdtr5bS9t8khPxonmXDYj2ZkdO3jHyChbMSSN7R+mBPRfA NCQG5e2uDlhTGn56wb4a1rLyS4CtoHq4rKAM0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=zmG+W/4EQr5I8cHC1aGN5m+fetVRJirBpfg0XoUKC2QajgTSYs7BbR24ZcjhyeVS00 tr+6pmZUVEX7WybYCD8bsRtLLR18Ju3IYnIXROulhNwLk5uaOiWf2PtNXG/I5PVaW0L+ gRdmMyuy+zJ/sLOLDb375xNqu5zDI1sRh8/c0= Received: by 10.236.72.202 with SMTP id t50mr44470yhd.40.1303803936282; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:45:36 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.163.24 with SMTP id q24ls833805ano.2.gmail; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.86.12 with SMTP id o12mr162678anl.1.1303803935671; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.86.12 with SMTP id o12mr162677anl.1.1303803935653; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw0-f43.google.com (mail-gw0-f43.google.com [74.125.83.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w37si2402042ana.5.2011.04.26.00.45.34 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of matthew@matthew-walton.co.uk designates 74.125.83.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.43; Received: by gwj21 with SMTP id 21so191502gwj.16 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:45:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.116.40 with SMTP id f28mr457355yhh.510.1303803934350; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.109.166 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:45:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <3eb6a3fe-db0e-4b7e-bd78-c81e73aad058@u12g2000prn.googlegroups.com> <0eb81ace-24e7-4b80-ac56-064fca41ea04@z33g2000vbk.googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 08:45:34 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: multilingual lovesong From: Matthew Walton To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: matthew@matthew-walton.co.uk X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of matthew@matthew-walton.co.uk designates 74.125.83.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=matthew@matthew-walton.co.uk Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 26 April 2011 08:27, nilcefas wrote: > ok, now that sounds more profound, i guess. but i'm not sure, if i get > it right: > > 1. what does {sagycku} in the first bridi mean? (where does the {cku} > come from?) wouldn't {sanga} suffice? I don't get that one either. Vlasisku thinks the second component of that lujvo is {cukta}. If you expand into a tanru it doesn't make much sense, although I suppose it could be a lujvo something like x1 sings work/words x2 but I'm not sure it's actually necessary to do it that way. Hopefully latros will clarify. > 2. do you really mean the second selbri is {se zgitci}? or should it > rather be {sance}? otherwise i don't get the meaning of it. {se zgitci} is "x1 is sound produced by musical instrument x2", so the {lo nu} part is about {ko'a} being produced by all musical instruments {ro zgitci}. There doesn't seem to be anything in the dictionary currently along the lines of "x1 plays musical instrument x2 producing word/tune/notes/sound x3" but this seems like a good way to get that idea across to me. Although it does leave out that the singer wants to actually do the playing, so one might want something in there to do with {gasnu} or more likely {gau}, but you're going to run out of syllables probably. Although I think most people probably understand that musical instruments don't tend to play themselves. Unless they're MIDI-controlled and plugged into a sequencer. {sance} is just "x1 is sound produced/emitted by x2", which leaves out the idea that it's musical instruments which are being played which I feel is quite important here. Both the German and the English are fairly explicit about that in my mind (although my German is fairly poor). > > On 25 Apr., 21:12, Ian Johnson wrote: >> {goi} might actually be better than {po'u}, since ko'a is theretofore >> unused. >> >> mu'o mi'e .latros. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Ian Johnson wr= ote: >> > .i mi djica lo nu sagycku ko'a do bau ro bangu .i go'i lo nu ko'a se z= gitci >> > ro zgitci .i ko'a po'u lu mi prami do .iu li'u >> >> > Something like that. >> >> > mu'o mi'e .latros. >> >> > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:28 PM, nilcefas wr= ote: >> >> >> right! {djica lo nu sanga} is obviously the better choice. would a >> >> construction with {.au} work as well? like {mi .au sanga}? >> >> >> concerning the {da}: what i tried to do was a structure like this: >> >> >> "i want to sing X in every language, and make X sound on every >> >> instrument. X =3D i love you" >> >> >> i was not sure whether {da} was the right cmavo to choose, but i >> >> certainly don't mean {do}. wouldn't that mean like "i want to sing >> >> in every language"? i thought about using {go'o}, but that i'm >> >> not sure about at all. actually, wouldn't that only work for the >> >> second (the {sance})-bridi but not for the first one? >> >> >> On Apr 24, 10:53 pm, ".arpis." wrote: >> >> > A few comments: >> >> >> > {djica sanga} is "want type-of sing", which would be better used to= mean >> >> > something like "desirously sing"; {sanga djica} is probably better = at >> >> > expressing "want to sing", or an explicit {djica lo nu sanga}. >> >> > I'm not sure why the {da} in the first bridi is there; should it be >> >> {do}? >> >> > And I'm not sure what the {da} in the second bridi is doing there >> >> either. >> >> >> > As far as I can tell, the {iu} at the end is fine; it attaches to {= do}, >> >> > which works perfectly in context. >> >> >> > On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 3:51 PM, nilcefas >> >> wrote: >> >> > > coi rodo >> >> >> > > lately, i have been to a performance by "bodo wartke", a german >> >> "musik- >> >> > > kabarettist". one of his pieces features a short love-poem, which= he >> >> > > translated into over eighty languages so far. these include conla= ngs >> >> > > such as esperanto, quenya and klingon, but lojban is still missin= g. so >> >> > > i made an effort to translate it with my rudimentary lojban-skill= s. >> >> > > that's why i'd be glad if anyone could look through my translatio= n... >> >> >> > > the german original goes as follows: >> >> >> > > >> ich will's in allen sprachen f=FCr dich singen, auf allen >> >> instrumenten zum >> >> > > erklingen bringen: ich liebe dich >> >> >> > > his english translation is not quite exact, but is probably bette= r in >> >> > > terms of versification: >> >> >> > > >> i want to sing in every language for you, baby, and play on ev= ery >> >> > > instrument to say these words to you: believe me, it is true - i = love >> >> you >> >> >> > > however, my attempt in lojban is based on the german original: >> >> >> > > >> ni'o mi djica sanga bau ro bangu da .i mi se sance sepi'o ro z= gitci >> >> da >> >> > > .i mi prami do .iu >> >> >> > > jbofi'e tells me, that this is grammatical, but is it "good lojba= n" >> >> > > too? especially the construction with the two "da" seems a little >> >> > > strange to me (although it might be practical, because it provide= s a >> >> > > sort of rhyme). i would like to include the ".iu" at the very end= of >> >> > > the verse, because these emotional indicators are such a unique >> >> > > feature of lojban - unless, of course, this should sound too awkw= ard. >> >> >> > > i'd appreciate any ideas on this. also, if anyone has a translati= on, >> >> > > that would fit better in the given meter or with a better rhyme, = that >> >> > > would be great! here's a link to the song: >> >> >> > >http://youtu.be/J2UBXB4IhZM >> >> >> > > thanks in advance! >> >> >> > > nils >> >> >> > > -- >> >> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e >> >> Groups >> >> > > "lojban" group. >> >> > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> >> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >> > > For more options, visit this group at >> >> > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> >> > -- >> >> > mu'o mi'e .arpis. >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gr= oups >> >> "lojban" group. >> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.- Zitierten Text ausblen= den - >> >> - Zitierten Text anzeigen - > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. 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