From lojban+bncCPGMg4mHHBDx4N7tBBoE05jnMQ@googlegroups.com Tue Apr 26 22:58:22 2011 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QExlT-0002WB-5i; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:58:22 -0700 Received: by gyf1 with SMTP id 1sf2601933gyf.16 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:58:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KZDzsjh1XEcxcg2FkhJOE7wymhImdLo3NlynuottTc4=; b=rwLaNh3PQSIdHeQI93W/8RBAoVBwSUEw58lZ7agITjs6Q+4Jp3L3V0AkEamLYp7hdl mSF/nq6EJ9TTrGs5ERXz4fh4IVIT2vzPZz48PHyhHeFPwGzSV/be2MCpjBgqGlZ1ufqI ZsQF0v/6d1ahrpX1ma2FqD4QU9ZJicpHakb3k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=6CrobBTMhvH6K31yIsKZJw+nT9SrfK+MCcARtidFV4X0fV8+yga1g/xl0WLqi55tda +HCJWq39C2MJPKqoQxGzjvbRxOWL7j+p4zPeHPVoDXWsDDcfpOeSGHwwE54iZcc1OdWk 0ucALqU4xsm7a+llr1EYNwwJtoP1crzufVzgM= Received: by 10.151.125.1 with SMTP id c1mr238510ybn.19.1303883889209; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:58:09 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.105.18 with SMTP id d18ls380185ybc.7.gmail; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:58:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.91.108 with SMTP id g72mr248833yhf.48.1303883888544; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:58:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.91.108 with SMTP id g72mr248832yhf.48.1303883888531; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:58:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f170.google.com (mail-wy0-f170.google.com [74.125.82.170]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l19si106418ybn.3.2011.04.26.22.58.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:58:08 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ivo.doko@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.170; Received: by wyb34 with SMTP id 34so1103565wyb.29 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:58:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.199.210 with SMTP id et18mr1671380wbb.227.1303883887246; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.156.5 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:58:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <29de23a7-9c3b-439e-8bc7-57748489baa7@z37g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 06:58:07 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Lettorals From: Ivo Doko To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: ivo.doko@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ivo.doko@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=ivo.doko@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 27 April 2011 06:35, Luke Bergen wrote: > In what universe is that in any way better than > the pronoun system that we have in lojban? In ours apparently, because otherwise linguistic evolutionary pressure would be different and thus would drive the evolution of natural languages differently. > In fact, one thing that's been really pissing me off about english lately= is > the inability to refer to a human being with a personal pronoun that does= n't > imply a particular gender. =A0The best I've been able to come up with is > "friend". =A0Every other personal pronoun/name-functioning-as-pronoun in > english implies a gender ("buddy, guy, dude, sir, dad, grandpa, etc..." a= re > all clearly male.) "Person". > "after putting the disk in the cabinet, Mabel sold it." Missing the context. Without it, the only reasonable supposition is that "it" refers to the cabinet, because in order to sell the disk without the cabinet would require taking the disk out of the cabinet again in order to give it to the purchaser, which makes the first part of the sentence pointless. It's the same reasoning by which the reference of "they" in "Monkeys were fed bananas because they were ripe." and "Monkeys were fed bananas because they were hungry." is unambiguous to humans. --=20 mu'o mi'e .ivan. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.