From lojban+bncCPGMg4mHHBCZhd_tBBoEqECiGg@googlegroups.com Wed Apr 27 00:15:53 2011 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QEyyS-0003NZ-4M; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:52 -0700 Received: by wya21 with SMTP id 21sf2012227wya.16 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8+WhqfPsbT+ykSauL1g+KAu6GmXluNCzNfUcI0uKWl0=; b=vS8WP+L1PS3Tyvh+AJU2wMovXQpf5Wr3eIm3RdACsCrLcKiwYzu0ESIhrFrbp0Gtty 3gWjHQWs1yYAsQ2eFS/+P4vvhoy9wEVTxAOqZyKs7+O/yBMtHj0w6pexw4b/8LFs4Wgh 5MapC976xom4OZWdEUwwqel9syQ10ptRffmiA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=4GJC11B+GEqhgmY7lVh4/sW5KKW/c/2KnWOxdEaEynKtboLeY0AD6Ne9X4Wa/ulxkn SmFBZXv5zinmiCF1DOpz0OstsUtfYzFYOckV4PVH0ycPOC8Pp2sNoscJNxOwY8dOiyb2 6Exq3B6n3/Xi4hpwyIsFe0ug56j9YC1P5ahOU= Received: by 10.216.53.1 with SMTP id f1mr544912wec.19.1303888537629; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:37 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.130.31 with SMTP id q31ls200701wbs.1.gmail; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.209.18 with SMTP id r18mr113097weo.10.1303888536351; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.209.18 with SMTP id r18mr113096weo.10.1303888536329; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f44.google.com (mail-ww0-f44.google.com [74.125.82.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h6si59543wes.3.2011.04.27.00.15.36 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ivo.doko@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.44; Received: by wwa36 with SMTP id 36so1300871wwa.25 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.63.6 with SMTP id z6mr1757632wbh.53.1303888536183; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.156.5 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <29de23a7-9c3b-439e-8bc7-57748489baa7@z37g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 08:15:36 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Lettorals From: Ivo Doko To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: ivo.doko@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ivo.doko@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=ivo.doko@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 27 April 2011 07:58, Luke Bergen wrote: > Your understanding of evolutionary theory is clearly off. =A0You're claim= ing > that evolutionary processes yield an ideal design consistently?! =A0Have = you > looked at the inefficiencies of the human body? =A0As I said before, evol= ution > in biology and in every other field is LAZY. =A0Does this thing survive l= ong > enough to re-produce? =A0Yes? =A0Great, it's good enough. =A0Does this ey= eball do > it's job well enough to make the animal survive? =A0Yes? =A0Great, good e= nough. > =A0Just because something is good enough that does not make it ideal=A0or= even > "good" for that matter. Your understanding of what I was trying to say about evolution is clearly way off. I clearly mentioned "local maximum" which should've hinted that I do know what I'm talking about, having designed evolutionary algorithms myself. For example, having both arms and wings is clearly better than having arms XOR wings, but since our evolutionary path got us stuck in the "arms" encampment > "No natural language features even > remotely similar mechanism for handling pronouns, which can only mean > that our "hardware" is not a priori "wired" in a way in which such > handling of pronouns comes naturally to it." > > This argument completely does not hold water. =A0Nor do you give any basi= s for > your claim. I do and you've quoted it: "No natural language features even remotely similar mechanism for handling pronouns". > Shoes did not arise naturally, we designed them. =A0Are > you telling me that the human foot just doesn't work with shoes because > shoes are a human designed construct? I am sort of, but not quite. Human foot does work with shoes, but not remarkably well. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morton%27s_neuroma > Sorry for being so confrontational on this point. =A0I remember reading > through the CLL and finding all kinds of "problems" with lojban only to h= ave > xorxes or gejyspa put me in my proper place. =A0I shouldn't be so impatie= nt. > =A0.u'u No apology required. I was not trying to say that lojban has problems nor that it is flawed, I am simply trying to be realistic in noticing that not every single aspect and feature of lojban is better and more practical *in every single way* than its English counterpart. --=20 mu'o mi'e .ivan. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.