From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhCrhd_tBBoEI5rWQQ@googlegroups.com Wed Apr 27 00:16:11 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QEyyk-0003Oi-9l; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:16:11 -0700 Received: by fxm14 with SMTP id 14sf1735270fxm.16 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=+Lfv40aqCc2NffSebJD9nxnSa4Kny+XF+7qnzJTKfrc=; b=r24l8QjeS9Schb/HAK9XIX1nvpzBujDVqVy0c5a47GZGtG36/4uEO0bMtxkJj2sbbt 8E/du+InEpGj1lRwrHqlR/VbpzhJCzjOlBQUV0CdEF7McIY+alP+QQGF4nzwXyXICZ/J JCmzE5VnJEQVj/5OAMmV8s7PunIEELs0qD1Ck= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=Prc2X1dMMN1Rsm9AwcusSLhrfeXqmAGSlPgY0onok83aZZiyxL5xyAZZ6EXxRFdlEj Z3j6SkBPmSmS/VO21irjCtd5O7C8J/92vbe6IjnUh81rt+M/+HnvJFM92a7DrDDdnbZv pPdtK9+y7/mF+AIvCowhWaGQw2OS340eyO2T0= Received: by 10.223.17.70 with SMTP id r6mr49062faa.16.1303888555044; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:55 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.223.78.196 with SMTP id m4ls116283fak.0.gmail; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.145.82 with SMTP id c18mr153481fav.29.1303888554107; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.145.82 with SMTP id c18mr153480fav.29.1303888554077; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f53.google.com (mail-bw0-f53.google.com [209.85.214.53]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z10si55483fam.5.2011.04.27.00.15.52 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.53; Received: by bwg12 with SMTP id 12so1645995bwg.40 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.20.66 with SMTP id e2mr1645370bkb.141.1303888552724; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.191.80 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:15:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <29de23a7-9c3b-439e-8bc7-57748489baa7@z37g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 01:15:52 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Lettorals From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555450e0308c104a1e1363c --00032555450e0308c104a1e1363c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I don't think intonation is better. It's easily ambiguous, especially in more complicated passages. Also, most speakers I've met /would/ phrase things just like that. More likely is "Bob hit Billy. Bob is 8". On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Ivo Doko wrote: > On 27 April 2011 05:12, Luke Bergen wrote: > > "bob hit billy. He is 8". > > In that case the intonation of the voice and accentuation will give > clues as to what "he" refers to - Bob or Billy. There's no such tool > in lojban. Although even without intonation/accentuation, it is more > probable that "he" will refer to subject (Bob) rather than the object > (Billy) of the previous sentence (unless specifically stressed, e.g. > "Bob hit *BILLY*. *HE* is eight."). Furthermore, most speakers would > not phrase such an utterance like that (split into two sentences) but > would more likely say either "Bob, who is eight, hit Billy" or "Bob > hit Billy, who is eight". > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .ivan. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --00032555450e0308c104a1e1363c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't think intonation is better. It's easily ambiguous, especial= ly in more complicated passages. Also, most speakers I've met /would/ p= hrase things just like that. More likely is "Bob hit Billy. Bob is 8&q= uot;.

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Ivo Doko <= span dir=3D"ltr"><ivo.doko@gmail.c= om> wrote:
On 27 April 2011 05:12, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> "bob hit billy. =A0He is 8".

In that case the intonation of the voice and accentuation will give clues as to what "he" refers to - Bob or Billy. There's no su= ch tool
in lojban. Although even without intonation/accentuation, it is more
probable that "he" will refer to subject (Bob) rather than the ob= ject
(Billy) of the previous sentence (unless specifically stressed, e.g.
"Bob hit *BILLY*. *HE* is eight."). Furthermore, most speakers wo= uld
not phrase such an utterance like that (split into two sentences) but
would more likely say either "Bob, who is eight, hit Billy" or &q= uot;Bob
hit Billy, who is eight".


--
mu'o mi'e .ivan.

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

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