From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBDGrOjsBBoEMJH47A@googlegroups.com Mon Apr 04 12:04:54 2011 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q6p51-0004jy-0E; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:04:54 -0700 Received: by gyf1 with SMTP id 1sf12202180gyf.16 for ; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:04:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=3Hw4BiZibU6ee5ZqV3Y1pe0vEhQX0ZDbpTA1mmVeiyc=; b=zio1rlEdFF6ODhP88nVztTX9j8AhZIHNLDcYLJd0nrQZ1e6WBs/VYv44fOjWn4xDQp QV+iictuLrNVZg8vrUssibAVMd+8nN+gSX7Tj9IzqHgi99Ccye3YD9N8eRX9CULibYN+ PzldWB6WXycu9Z9tVDJ1YatBUHCXaupA7avts= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=Cz2APMkd1ZitL81W/proI3WxA/I3kmC7QlQf36WunH96AAdbu0T1ECBr5hRycuZZUQ wcwBQ17IU4/CxkrzPGga/ULacA/Btme3j2cpwTN5GzFux609YBjsiCQZ+R4oCXNs/6Cv UUIsFU5bpJz2sqQd7AVF3HjOTmupn5SZFSsv8= Received: by 10.150.66.18 with SMTP id o18mr705375yba.33.1301943878573; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:04:38 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.131.8 with SMTP id e8ls2530929ybd.5.p; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.114.5 with SMTP id m5mr148284ybc.6.1301943877450; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.114.5 with SMTP id m5mr148283ybc.6.1301943877392; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f175.google.com (mail-iy0-f175.google.com [209.85.210.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v10si1075385ybe.5.2011.04.04.12.04.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.175; Received: by mail-iy0-f175.google.com with SMTP id 7so8610877iye.20 for ; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.123.141 with SMTP id p13mr7879679ibr.29.1301943877173; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:04:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.37.10 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Apr 2011 12:04:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <0a74da06-07cf-4b52-a329-ed0ebbae2f5b@u8g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> From: Luke Bergen Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 15:04:17 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] I love Lojban's approach, but what's the deal with place tags? To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e647630651027904a01c6e31 --0016e647630651027904a01c6e31 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think his point was that these dialectic splits could result in two groups of people not being able to understand one another. If one group of people liked using the place structure so much that they just ignored FA what would happen if they saw something like {fi lo zdani cu klama fa mi lo zarci} and got completely confused (you know, cuz generations later FA would have basically been dropped out of the language by this group). On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > > > On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Joel T. wrote: > >> In any case, surely running two systems side-by-side is asking for >> dialectisation (is that a word?), where speakers in one area get used >> to one system while speakers in another prefer the other? >> > > It can, and does. But we consider the flexibility to be a plus. That > way, any person coming from a natural language background of say, Turkish, > can from sentences the way that seems most natural to them, while someone > coming from an English background can form setnences the most natural way to > them. And both will be understood equally well. We had, for example, a > while a back, a discussion over which was "better": to use "cu" often, or to > totally eschew it in favor of sumti that are competely terminated so that > there was no need for it (i.e. "lo gerku cu barda" vs. "lo gerku ku > barda"). There are vocal proponents on each side, so it amounts to a > dialectical split, but.. so what? > --gejyspa > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e647630651027904a01c6e31 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think his point was that these dialectic splits could result in two group= s of people not being able to understand one another.

If= one group of people liked using the place structure so much that they just= ignored FA what would happen if they saw something like {fi lo zdani cu kl= ama fa mi lo zarci} and got completely confused (you know, cuz generations = later FA =A0would have basically been dropped out of the language by this g= roup).

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Michael Turn= iansky <mturn= iansky@gmail.com> wrote:


On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Joel T. <j= oelofarabia@gmail.com> wrote:
In any case, surely running two syste= ms side-by-side is asking for
dialectisation (is that a word?), where sp= eakers in one area get used
to one system while speakers in another prefer the other?
<= /div>

=A0 It can, and does.=A0 But we consider the flexibility to = be a plus.=A0 That way, any person coming from a natural language backgroun= d of say, Turkish, can from sentences the way that seems most natural to th= em, while someone coming from an English background can form setnences the = most natural way to them.=A0 And both will be understood equally well.=A0 W= e had, for example, a while a back, a discussion over which was "bette= r": to use "cu" often, or to totally eschew it in favor of s= umti that are competely terminated so that there was no need for it (i.e. &= quot;lo gerku cu barda" vs. "lo gerku ku barda").=A0 There a= re vocal proponents on each side, so it amounts to a dialectical split, but= .. so what?
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa
=A0

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