From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhCY1u_sBBoEFjHkcQ@googlegroups.com Tue Apr 05 21:25:14 2011 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q7KIm-00034U-MU; Tue, 05 Apr 2011 21:25:14 -0700 Received: by qyk36 with SMTP id 36sf1028415qyk.16 for ; Tue, 05 Apr 2011 21:25:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NsUM3Uc0UxnAasxfWIEd41Aynf977WXNguH2Gr3lgg4=; b=QvbbOFEBJrbMxAqWO/s8TJl4K0ESAJ/JVhaKggERMg9cabYrnKmAdilUboU8xYsDIG a3+y9/Ig/vLdLQUWlpS9kkfoa6k6iD9cFcCH7804YdPqLo/Hs8MuNXxZKwXowXhvkeqX 0lg9T66fvvmVSvDlg50GQGsjFUSdSFQdep+Js= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=tD8DQbXtadAaJDXec+L+1HQns7Erj9onubagRgKvtQAAvExyqG1cISenJS1YvITMZ6 OfK6VAWh0NZpptKq2WgjD+hGRFuyMQb8Ew120rb/NVUtGd9+n22+VDXWia66+zZL+vXW ei0enis5YVEYryaYFDnl9m5dY/j5qaOznIjxg= Received: by 10.229.126.148 with SMTP id c20mr60232qcs.22.1302063896247; Tue, 05 Apr 2011 21:24:56 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.205.76 with SMTP id fp12ls136354qcb.0.p; Tue, 05 Apr 2011 21:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.90.88 with SMTP id h24mr44082qcm.27.1302063895174; Tue, 05 Apr 2011 21:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.90.88 with SMTP id h24mr44081qcm.27.1302063895151; Tue, 05 Apr 2011 21:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f181.google.com (mail-qy0-f181.google.com [209.85.216.181]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l4si34637qck.4.2011.04.05.21.24.55 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 05 Apr 2011 21:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.181; Received: by qyg14 with SMTP id 14so790197qyg.5 for ; Tue, 05 Apr 2011 21:24:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.247.78 with SMTP id mb14mr402924qcb.21.1302063894992; Tue, 05 Apr 2011 21:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.96.135 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Apr 2011 21:24:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <0a74da06-07cf-4b52-a329-ed0ebbae2f5b@u8g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <201104051201.59228.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 00:24:54 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I love Lojban's approach, but what's the deal with place tags? From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.181 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ...or to be more precise setese or tesete --gejyspa On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Ian Johnson wrote= : > fi ... fe is probably pretty tame too. Something like {mi broda fi do fe = lo > nu brode}; there are gismu with place structures similar to that {broda}. > (Alternately, we could just have a SE to swap xm and xn in general; as it > stands I absolutely do not think that {te se} and {se te} are adequate > solutions.) > > mu'o mi'e .latros. > > On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: >> >> On Tuesday 05 April 2011 11:36:04 Joel T. wrote: >> > la suzyn. klama la paris. la berlin. zo'e le karce (English structure) >> > >> > and >> > >> > la suzyn. fu le karce fi la berlin. fe la paris. klama (Turkish >> > structure) >> > >> > You can imagine how hard it is for native English speakers to get used >> > to Turkish sentence structure, in fact my parents never quite did. At >> > least in Turkish when you change the structure of a sentence you do it >> > for a reason, like emphasis. But Lojban expects me to be able to adapt >> > mid-paragraph for somebody who uses any and all possible sentence >> > structures on a whim! My brain would flip! >> >> The Turkish order above I find highly marked, and with three sumti place= s >> marked with FA I don't know what's supposed to be emphasized. I think "l= a >> suzyn. klama la paris. la berlin. fu le karce" and "la suzyn. la paris. = la >> berlin. fu le karce cu klama" are both unmarked. The version with "zo'e" >> calls a slight attention to the non-statement of the route. In the absen= ce >> of >> skipped places, conjunctions which have to have the same sumti in the sa= me >> place of two different selbri, and attempts to mimic foreign word order = or >> fit scansion, I think a normal limit is one SE on the selbri and one sum= ti >> marked with FA. >> >> Pierre >> -- >> When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates. >> J=E1 n=E3o percebe nada, j=E1 n=E3o percebe nada. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. 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