From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARDPzvHsBBoEQQM_hw@googlegroups.com Wed Apr 06 06:17:30 2011 Received: from mail-ew0-f61.google.com ([209.85.215.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q7Sbs-0006Uz-AJ; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 06:17:29 -0700 Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5sf115132ewy.16 for ; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 06:17:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=h9nrxHLjGloxWyKmmo33xQxOMvlcqpcgydFGi2zy+Ms=; b=S8QFJCa0yT0C+AVpqCx1V1HNwIoQ9D3B9rCGc0pxe84aqb69g0bSo6/f5zTJeJ1RDd iGaQEgG6qcfEuG7lQOTMf6lp/f1/6umMyAuEMMRnx20wzwiT3fMRCxh/ser8iFI9S6VI rUu0GGoMwkvYFTxXs5PFmmMkUbMnSjbAMmRYs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=pdrgB/ek/dbcyWcxuYXXtq8prATRFYfjYUPNKpqGmpmNnSLBTgZesu1ML79b6mmGgY KGgWASeY5tzn2Fogg/iWARqYw+2EkcBX1jpsXrT5ute6M754743mS9C1hamnhbTaU0s/ /mUw2Pr+2cNI1egRAGqenrJU+CTvjUBNYqdVQ= Received: by 10.213.25.71 with SMTP id y7mr656304ebb.0.1302095695146; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 06:14:55 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.2.146 with SMTP id 18ls127921ebj.2.p; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 06:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.217.5.6 with SMTP id v6mr336804wes.9.1302095693605; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 06:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.217.5.6 with SMTP id v6mr336803wes.9.1302095693581; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 06:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f175.google.com (mail-wy0-f175.google.com [74.125.82.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g5si78028wej.4.2011.04.06.06.14.53 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 06 Apr 2011 06:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.175; Received: by mail-wy0-f175.google.com with SMTP id 20so1840681wye.34 for ; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 06:14:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.166.67 with SMTP id f45mr6307444wel.112.1302095693291; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 06:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.244.10 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Apr 2011 06:14:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <0a74da06-07cf-4b52-a329-ed0ebbae2f5b@u8g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <201104051201.59228.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 09:14:52 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I love Lojban's approach, but what's the deal with place tags? From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364272494322b604a03fc79f --0016364272494322b604a03fc79f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Er, yeah. See, I couldn't even remember how to do it .uinai mu'o mi'e .latros. On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > ...or to be more precise setese or tesete > --gejyspa > > > On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Ian Johnson > wrote: > > fi ... fe is probably pretty tame too. Something like {mi broda fi do f= e > lo > > nu brode}; there are gismu with place structures similar to that {broda= }. > > (Alternately, we could just have a SE to swap xm and xn in general; as = it > > stands I absolutely do not think that {te se} and {se te} are adequate > > solutions.) > > > > mu'o mi'e .latros. > > > > On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Pierre Abbat > wrote: > >> > >> On Tuesday 05 April 2011 11:36:04 Joel T. wrote: > >> > la suzyn. klama la paris. la berlin. zo'e le karce (English structur= e) > >> > > >> > and > >> > > >> > la suzyn. fu le karce fi la berlin. fe la paris. klama (Turkish > >> > structure) > >> > > >> > You can imagine how hard it is for native English speakers to get us= ed > >> > to Turkish sentence structure, in fact my parents never quite did. A= t > >> > least in Turkish when you change the structure of a sentence you do = it > >> > for a reason, like emphasis. But Lojban expects me to be able to ada= pt > >> > mid-paragraph for somebody who uses any and all possible sentence > >> > structures on a whim! My brain would flip! > >> > >> The Turkish order above I find highly marked, and with three sumti > places > >> marked with FA I don't know what's supposed to be emphasized. I think > "la > >> suzyn. klama la paris. la berlin. fu le karce" and "la suzyn. la paris= . > la > >> berlin. fu le karce cu klama" are both unmarked. The version with "zo'= e" > >> calls a slight attention to the non-statement of the route. In the > absence > >> of > >> skipped places, conjunctions which have to have the same sumti in the > same > >> place of two different selbri, and attempts to mimic foreign word orde= r > or > >> fit scansion, I think a normal limit is one SE on the selbri and one > sumti > >> marked with FA. > >> > >> Pierre > >> -- > >> When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates. > >> J=E1 n=E3o percebe nada, j=E1 n=E3o percebe nada. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "lojban" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > >> > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps > > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --0016364272494322b604a03fc79f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Er, yeah. See, I couldn't even remember how to do it .uinai

mu&#= 39;o mi'e .latros.

On Wed, Apr 6, 201= 1 at 12:24 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
...or to be more precise setese or tesete =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa


On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
> fi ... fe is probably pretty tame too. Something like {mi broda fi do = fe lo
> nu brode}; there are gismu with place structures similar to that {brod= a}.
> (Alternately, we could just have a SE to swap xm and xn in general; as= it
> stands I absolutely do not think that {te se} and {se te} are adequate=
> solutions.)
>
> mu'o mi'e .latros.
>
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
>>
>> On Tuesday 05 April 2011 11:36:04 Joel T. wrote:
>> > la suzyn. klama la paris. la berlin. zo'e le karce (Engli= sh structure)
>> >
>> > and
>> >
>> > la suzyn. fu le karce fi la berlin. fe la paris. klama (Turki= sh
>> > structure)
>> >
>> > You can imagine how hard it is for native English speakers to= get used
>> > to Turkish sentence structure, in fact my parents never quite= did. At
>> > least in Turkish when you change the structure of a sentence = you do it
>> > for a reason, like emphasis. But Lojban expects me to be able= to adapt
>> > mid-paragraph for somebody who uses any and all possible sent= ence
>> > structures on a whim! My brain would flip!
>>
>> The Turkish order above I find highly marked, and with three sumti= places
>> marked with FA I don't know what's supposed to be emphasiz= ed. I think "la
>> suzyn. klama la paris. la berlin. fu le karce" and "la s= uzyn. la paris. la
>> berlin. fu le karce cu klama" are both unmarked. The version = with "zo'e"
>> calls a slight attention to the non-statement of the route. In the= absence
>> of
>> skipped places, conjunctions which have to have the same sumti in = the same
>> place of two different selbri, and attempts to mimic foreign word = order or
>> fit scansion, I think a normal limit is one SE on the selbri and o= ne sumti
>> marked with FA.
>>
>> Pierre
>> --
>> When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates.
>> J=E1 n=E3o percebe nada, j=E1 n=E3o percebe nada.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= Groups
>> "lojban" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubs= cribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>

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